#14 - Chasing Freedom: Todd Naylor on Entrepreneurship, Finance, and Making a Difference

In this episode, Todd Naylor, an entrepreneur with a transformative journey from aspiring medical professional to ROTC participant and e-commerce employee, shares his story. Five books opened his eyes to the world of finance and entrepreneurship. Now focused on creating a fund geared towards providing capital for large commercial deals, Todd talks about his struggles, including raising capital and building meaningful relationships, versus the bootstrap route. The discussion covers his motivations, challenges, and the importance of building trust and relationships, all while aiming to make a bigger impact through entrepreneurship. The dialogue underscores the significance of continuous learning and action in achieving success.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:37 Todd's Background and Career Shift

02:45 Entrepreneurial Journey and Inspirations

03:39 Current Ventures and Financial Strategies

05:03 Challenges and Lessons Learned

06:46 Philanthropy and Personal Goals

10:33 Fund Management and Future Plans

16:28 Building Trust and Networking

18:33 Building Relationships for Success

18:42 Engaging with High-Level Investors

19:25 The Power of Incremental Commitment

20:23 Leveraging Social Events for Networking

22:28 Balancing Work and Passion Projects

23:30 Overcoming Networking Challenges

28:11 The Importance of Continuous Learning and Action

30:23 Final Thoughts and Personal Anecdotes

Transcript

 I've often said that anyone can make a career or an entrepreneurial journey. Could start. Anywhere. I'm here today with a special guest, Todd Naer. Todd's been a long time friend of mine. We actually met through the Utah Valley University ROTC program, and he was one of my first employees when I started my e-commerce business.

Todd since started his own entrepreneurial journey and I'm really excited to have him on the the show today to talk about it a little bit, some of the, you know, successes that he's had, some of the struggles that he's working and overcoming. Uh, but I think that there's a lot of value to be had in this conversation.

So thank you so much for coming, man. Thank you for having me. Todd, would you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, what your background is, and, and what you're doing now?

Yeah, so, uh, originally I was at UVU. I was, I was studying medicine. I wanted to go into the emergency physician's assistant.

Um, and I had taken the science classes. I was getting all ready to kinda get to that upper level of those science classes, but. I'll be honest, I struggled a little bit with my first lab for anatomy. It was pretty, pretty heavy. Lots of terms, lots of memorization, and I ended the semester with a D, which is not a great way to start a medical career.

And the way the timing worked out that summer, I actually went out and did summer sales with a, a friend of my wife's. And while we were out there, the owners of the company made it a point to educate us on. Finance and matters beyond just kind of selling door to door. And so two of the books that came in our initial package were, uh, rich Dad, poor Dad, and Richest Man in Babylon.

And those two books for me were critical in kind of opening my eyes to a whole world of money and business and entrepreneurship that I frankly didn't even know existed. Mm-hmm. And so that was kind of like a, you know, a light bulb moment. I realized what opportunities existed, and at that point I decided, well, I could struggle through a medical career and you know, probably get there, but maybe take a little longer than some of my peers.

Or if I played my cards right and through business and different pursuits, I could be making as much as a doctor in a shorter amount of time and potentially have much more freedom than mm-hmm. A doctor who, mm-hmm. Although they're very, very skilled professionals, at the end of the day, many are still employees.

Mm-hmm. And so I, you know, that freedom was appealing and so I switched my degree to accounting. Um, I still wanted to do the ROTC, and so I stayed in that program. But, um, yeah, that's kind of like where it all started. Uh, when we met, I, I was inspired by your, the kind of the things that you were doing and the pursuits that you were going after, and.

Um, you are someone to me who's like actually walking the path. I think a lot of times in life you find those people who are kind of all talk, you know, they can say the right things, they can talk about the right things, but when you ask them what they've done, it's kind of empty. But that wasn't the case for you.

You had a store, you had products, you were selling 'em, you were doing marketing. It was cool to see someone actually in that pursuit. And so, um, you were kind of an inspiration to say, Hey, it is possible. Um, since then I've, I've tried a lot of different, um, ventures. I've made a lot of the different mistakes.

I've lost a lot of money. Um, and I've kind of landed at this point of I really like the kind of backend finance. And so one of the things that I'm working on is a fund that specializes in lending money transactionally for large commercial deals. And so what that kind of looks like is when people wanna close on a big property.

Sometimes they need that capital, either earnest money. Mm-hmm. Or if they're doing like a rehab, they need the capital to do the rehab so they can refinance it after. And so our goal is to fill that time period, that gap, um, with capital and help them get into their transaction. Um, and so that's kind of the, that's the project I'm working on.

Um, I've enjoyed it so far and yeah, we're trying to grow. So 

really interesting concept. You know, my background, I was bootstrapped, right? And there's different ways to go about doing, doing, uh, business and entrepreneurship. And it's not to say that one's right, one's wrong or anything like that, but it's all about finding your solution and what's going to work for you.

So it's really interesting to me that you've, you know, got essentially a process now 

mm-hmm. 

To help people. Fill those gaps or solve that problem. Uh, and you streamline it for people, you take the guesswork out of it. Yeah. Like the bootstrapping thing for me. Lots of guesswork in that. Sure. Right. Uh, I was actually just telling your, your, uh, wife in the last episode 

mm-hmm.

That you saw all of the struggle for me still, where, you know, I was giving up, you know. Events and time with my friends that like, you know, uh, Vince and David would invite me to go like snowboarding on the weekends mm-hmm. And things like that. And I, no man. Sorry I'm working. Nah man. Sorry I can't come to your house.

I can't catch that barbecue. I'll get you next time. Yeah. Like, it was definitely a grind. Yeah. And I think in a lot of ways, if I were to go back in time having a funding solution, even if it was just short term 

mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Not that that's necessarily, again, better or worse, but it would've alleviated a lot of pressures.

Sure. I wonder though, actually this, my podcasts aren't scripted. I'm sorry. When I get off track like this, part of me wonders if I would've l what lessons I would've learned differently or that I wouldn't have learned going with a funding route versus a a bootstrapped route. 

I can see it. Kinda curious.

Yeah, I can see it kind of two ways. I think, you know, capital, to me it's always been an accelerant. Mm-hmm. And so it could have launched you past maybe some of those initial problems to a future problem, which, you know, maybe that's where you wanted to be. Maybe that's a better problem to be solving.

Mm-hmm. But I also think it launches you past learning some lessons. So when you get into bigger numbers, bigger transactions, when you don't have that foundation, um. I think that can also be detrimental. So it's kind of a, a double-edged sword in a way. Definitely. That's a really 

interesting insight to, to think about.

Um, could I ask what, you kind of shared one already, but what maybe in your background or in your, your personal history inspired you or kind of led you down this path of entrepreneurship or, or even getting into funds? Um, 

real I've, the biggest thing is chasing freedom. Um, that's been the inspiration.

That's, you know, I don't want money for money's sake. Right. I think, you know, there's that saying money is the root of all evil, and I think that it, the love of money or the hoarding of money, there's some, there can be bad things with money, but I also think there's a lot of good, the, the freedom that you can bring to yourself and your families.

The charitable work that you can do for others who are less fortunate. Mm-hmm. The. You know, the building of communities, the, there's just, there's a lot of good, and if you choose to focus on the good, I think it's a, it's a worthwhile pursuit. And that's kind of where I've always wanted to get to, um, is to have that freedom for, for me and my family, and to be able to do the projects that we're deeply passionate about.

Mm-hmm. Versus punching the clock on someone else's projects. Definitely 

there's a entrepreneur that I'm, I'm good friends with, his name's Akbar Sheik. His mantra is kind of why we became friends, him and I, and he says we make more to give more. He's out, you know, building thousands of wells now. I, I think he's actually on a trip right now to Kenya to open up a, like a children's school.

That's, that's awesome. He's built in his, his, um, sister's name. But I saw him doing those things and I was like, yes. Yeah. Like, I want to be making a difference. 

Mm-hmm. 

And it looks different to different people, obviously. Like a lot of my, my, uh, charity work is with veterans organizations and with youth athletics.

Mm-hmm. 

Because those were groups, organizations that made a difference in my life. 

Sure. 

Um, and so I'm like. Yeah, I want to give back to the organizations that one helped me, but also help the people that are in my communities and that I'm passionate about, you know, serving. So I, I try to make it a point like that.

Um, do you mind talking a little bit about your why with the charity? You know, what do you hope to, to accomplish with that long term? 

I, to be honest, I haven't nailed down kind of the specific place I want to be. Um, similarly, I'm, I'm passionate about the youth. I think they're our future. Um, in a lot of ways, and I think that the more support that we can give to the younger generations, the better it'll be for the world, our country, our communities.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and so I definitely want to do that. Um, another area that I'm passionate about is, um, kind of men's issues, men's mental health specifically. Um, I've read a number of books that have kind of talked about the subject, and I think there's a gap there of supporting men. Um. Kind of in the right ways for them to develop and become leaders and to support their own communities.

And, um, that's a space that I would like to be in at some point. Uh, I've had a dream of running like a, a ranch basically of some sort. Mm-hmm. Some place where people can come be with nature, be um, around other guys. Do manly things like a, a cattle run and different, you know, whatever. Yeah. But I, I think it'd be really cool to either own or be a part of something like that.

Um, 'cause those are, you know, I like horses and the outdoors and I think that would be a cool way to merge both of those. 

I like that you have this, you know, it's essentially a dream that you're working towards. Right. Uh, could I ask, sorry, jumping around now, why did you choose. You mentioned you're, you're kind of, you're very interested in the finance backend.

Mm-hmm. 

Why did you choose funds instead of like, traditional CPA work or something like that? What appealed to you about being, you know, a fund manager or director? Yeah, 

so the thing I like about funds is the ability to, uh, kind of using an army term to amass power. It's, you know, a CPA. The reason, so I got a degree in accounting, and accounting is absolutely critical, but the issue that I have with accounting is it's, um, backwards facing.

You're accounting for events that have already happened. Mm-hmm. Now it's important to make strategic decisions, but that's where accountants thrive. And so that's why audit work, tax work, kind of general CPA, things have not really attracted me. Um, on the other side, looking forward, you have financial analysts, they work in.

Massive corporations doing, you know, different projects to try and move, um, projects forward. Uh, and larger funds will have their own analysts and things like that. And so that was attractive. Um, the other route I looked at was like, um, financial planning, but the problem that I had with financial planning is it's a little bit too, uh, simple in a way.

You know, I didn't just want to. Meet with someone once a year, say, Hey, your retirement accounts are looking great. Hey, let's max out the deposit. And then that was kind of it, because I didn't feel like that was fulfilling enough. Sure. And so the fund gives me the ability to kind of be in that analytic, um, capital raising space and to deploy funds into larger scale projects that I think can have the most impact.

Yeah, that's a a, I was starting to think about that. As you built to that point, but the fund actually is a tool for you to make a bigger impact in the world around you. Exactly. Right. You can influence your community, but not just beyond the community. You can influence and support businesses and other entrepreneurs that are also trying to make the world a better place.

Yep. And that, uh, that's like a snowball, cumulative effort, right? Mm-hmm. I'm a big believer that entrepreneurs in general, right? A lot of us get in this mindset where we are solo. Yeah. Where we're grinding. Like I just kind of talked about it a minute ago. Like I cut off a lot of my friends for a while because I was just trying to do the work 

mm-hmm.

And, and get to a point where the business was self-sustaining and was profitable. But when I was in that space, I wasn't necessarily aware of. The people around me that were going through similar struggles or obstacles or, you know, I, I felt alone in a lot of ways. Yeah. As an entrepreneur then, I feel now this almost like ethical and moral obligation that I should be helping other entrepreneurs recognize that they're not alone in facing these challenges.

Like, I'm, I've gone through 'em, you're going through 'em. My, the viewers are going through 'em. These are struggles that aren't necessarily unique to us as individuals, but we often frame them that way because we get so focused on, on what we are doing in our line of work, and the fund funds become a tool mm-hmm.

To help other people grow. That sounds like a really fulfilling thing to me actually, when we talk about it and break it down like that. 

Yeah. 

Uh, so can I ask what like. You've created the fund, you're creating the fund, you're managing the 

fund. We're, how does that look? Right now, we're in the beginning stages.

Um, I'm working with a, a network who's kind of providing the education, kind of the support building that, uh, foundation. Um, and I think the concepts there, the, the demand is there, there are people who need these kinds of transactions. Mm-hmm. Um. You know, it's funny that we're, we're talking about people and supporting 'em, but one of the biggest struggles I'm having right now is because I'm sort of an analytical, I like the backside part.

I'm struggling on the capital raise. I'm struggling kind of on that, going out, networking with people, um, sharing the vision in a meaningful way. Um, like I mentioned, I, I've done the door to door sales thing and you know, especially in door to door, you've got a couple seconds on the door. You've gotta be quick.

You've gotta hook their attention, you've gotta get right to the features. It's, it's a little pushy. Mm-hmm. And it's not how I wanna run my business. It works in that setting, but it's not how I wanna run this one. And then I've been Well, and it's not the right setting. Right. Yes, exactly. 

Obviously you're not 

going door to door knocking to raise funds, right?

No. But, but then as well, I've been, you know, like I said, I've lost some money. I've been burned in some transactions from, unfortunately some dishonest people. And so I. I fall into this trap of trying to make sure it's perfect before I ask for any money. You know, I, I, my biggest fear would be to hurt the people that I'm trying to help.

Mm-hmm. And so because of that, I've been sort of stuck in the preparation phase. Um, the roadmap, how it looks is, ideally I would like to line up, um, letter of intent. LOI. Line up a bunch of people who would like to invest and then go and structure the entity that way. I'm not getting caught in the legal of funds can be expensive to set up.

Mm-hmm. Um, so I don't wanna go and incur that expense and then not have anybody interested in it. And so I'm trying to generate that interest and then I'll set up the entity and then we'll go to work. Um, but yeah, it's, it's kind of that 

phase I'm in. So can I ask, what are you doing to generate the interest right now?

Um, this podcast. 

Yeah. This is one, uh, you know, sharing the vision is really what I've kind of digested it down to, right? It's not a sales pitch. I'm not trying to hook somebody. I'm not trying to take their inheritance. Really. I want to communicate. This is where I'm trying to go and share that with people.

Mm-hmm. Now, you know, my own fears will get in the way. Um, I'm not a very good marketer. And so I don't quite know how to reach people that I don't know who may be interested in this without coming off as salesy. You know, any Instagram direct message of like, hi, my name's Todd. I'm doing this thing. Yeah. I just, it feels so salesy to me, and so I'm, I'm working through my own limitations on how to be confident in my message and like I said, share the vision in a meaningful way.

If. Long time viewers, they're gonna, they, they already know what I'm thinking here. Trust is the defacto currency of the world. I've known you for a long time. I know that you're one of the most trustworthy people that I've ever interacted with, right? To the point where even after you left my organization, I came back to you I think a couple times and I was like, Todd, come back man.

Like, uh, I try to make it a point to exclusively associate with very high trust individuals. Uh. I think that most successful people, most people who would be in a position and were willing to contribute to a fund 

mm-hmm. 

Are people that are operating like that. Right? Yeah. High trust only. So my, I guess thought and recommendation would be one, build maximum trust with your relationships.

Right. And you have to be building relationships. So I, I think we, we might've talked about this before. I'd make it a point to get into anywhere the money's at. And don't worry about selling, don't worry about marketing at all. Just worry about building relationships. Yeah. Uh, and that's the front end, right?

And then it becomes easier and incremental. Right? So you get into like, you know, come to some car events or something like that. Sure. Go to the, go to the, you know, private. Um, every now and then they do like these car reveals, but they do 'em at like an aircraft hanger or something like that up in Salt Lake City.

And. You know, you got all the helicopter pilots and you got the plane pilots, you get the car guys. Yeah. That's a room of people that are like at a high level, you know, would be maybe interested or willing to contribute to funds. 'cause they're always looking for the next investment, right? Sure. But you get your foot in the door at some of these events, you shake hands.

Mm-hmm. Right. You talk to 'em, you get to know them, you know their families, you follow up on them and their families. Right. Um, relationship building, trust building. No sale whatsoever. Yeah. And then when you frame it like this, it's way easier to get somebody to sign off on a letter of interest or a letter of intent.

Yeah. Than it is to just get them to pitch you, you know, money or sign, sign off on the money. 

Sure. So you say, 

Hey, I'm interested in doing this. Would that be something you're interested in, in, in the future? Right. I don't need 'em any commitment for money now or anything like that. I just want to gauge whether or not there's interest.

Yeah. 

And you get 'em to say yes to that. Right, because it's a lot easier to get 'em to say yes to. Yeah. I would be interested in that in the future. 

Mm-hmm. 

But then they've already said yes in their head and like moving forward it's like, hey, when he gets that fund up, I've already said yes, I'm interested in that fund.

True. They've already convinced themselves then. But you didn't have to convince him to sell money. 'cause it's easier to get them to say yes to. Yeah, I'd be interested in that. 

Mm-hmm. 

Than it is to get them to say yes to here's $10,000. Sure. But. They in doing that, it's already framed differently in their mind.

True. I've already said yes once. So it's kind of like in, um, in eCommerce, right? Or even in coaching. You know, you have a lower ticket item that gets people in the door a lot of, A lot of times. Mm-hmm. Just like they come in, you qualify them as a buyer. Right. It might be a five to $10 product or something like that.

Yeah. But they pull out their card and they buy, and then you hit 'em with the upsell later. It's the same kind of thing. You've already framed that they're going to buy something. 

Mm-hmm. 

They just don't know that they're gonna buy the big thing yet. Yeah. They're just buying off on the interest right now.

Anyways, that's kind of how I would picture it in my head. Um. But like it's gotta just be a relationship based thing. Sure. Right? Sure. And I would tell the story, like, what are you trying to accomplish with the fund? Who are you trying to serve? Right? Mm-hmm. And you can niche that down. But I mean, at the end of the day, if it was me in that kind of situation, and I'm thinking about like, I feel this obligation to help other entrepreneurs know that they're not going through the same struggles.

Like if you're trying to help other businesses contribute and make differences in the world and make the world a better place for the people around them at scale. 

Yeah. 

You tell that story and that story. People can relate and resonate to that and they're like, I wanna, I wanna make the world a better place and if helping this fund helps make the world a better place, I wanna help the fund.

Yeah. So it's, the story is what sells the contribution and the participation to the fund, but it's not what. You lead with, you have to lead with the relationship, the relationship's, what gets you in the door. Yeah. The story is what gets the contribution. That makes sense. I mean that's just how I picture that in my head.

Right. Okay. What other, uh, like you said, you're in this planning phase, you've been doing this, I'd recommend one, don't wait to take the action. We talk about that all the time. Um, I even was just talking to your wife about it on the last episode, but like. Imperfect action today beats the perfect action next week.

Or the action you don't take. Sure. So where you at with this Man? 

I, you know, I hate to admit it, but it's the reality I'm, I'm fearful of, of developing those relationships and, um, maybe call it a little bit desperate, just on, on my own side. I, I want this project to take off. Um. I still work full time. So there's kind of that juggling of, okay, when I'm at work, I don't really have time to work on this project.

Mm-hmm. And then when I do have time, it's already 10 o'clock at night, I don't want to be calling people or direct messaging that late. And yeah, trying to find that balance. And so, uh, well, and inefficiency, right. I'm pretty time restricted and so just blasting a message to 20,000 people on Facebook. I don't feel like that's the.

Really building the relationship. Yeah, I agree. And so it's, it's finding those opportunities to build meaningful relationships while being a little bit time restricted. Mm-hmm. It's kind of, kind of where I'm at. 

Well, then I, there are some, like, obviously different people in everybody's life that you maybe feel more or less comfortable messaging at different times of the day.

Sure. Right. Uh. Like after 5:00 PM it's probably not an issue until you hit like eight or 9:00 PM Sure. I actually have a rule if my phone rings after 9:00 PM I'm not picking it up. But, you know, and from business school, things like that, like our cohort from back there mm-hmm. I think has been pretty successful over the course of the last decade now.

Yeah. So I would leverage existing relationships just to get your foot in the door, but like. Think about what do you do, you know, socially, or maybe you're at that stage in entrepreneurship where you don't do anything socially, like I was talking about earlier. Um, but like, just capitalize on what you're already doing socially.

Yeah, 

right. I, I spend the majority of my time, obviously, kind of at work. Mm-hmm. Um, and I've, you know, I love my coworkers. I love the space that I'm in. Um, but they're. In the polite, politest way possible. They're not necessarily the right kinds of people. They're not going in the same direction Sure. As I'd like to go.

Um, and then in the evenings, right. Usually I'm just with my family, a little bit introverted. Mm-hmm. And so I, I'm not at those events, but I'm, I am trying to get better. I've got an event coming up in two weeks, so we're gonna put ourselves out there and share the vision and hopefully see something from it.

Um. But I like, like you said, I need to get to more of these kind of social events. Mm-hmm. And just be present. Just shake hands, you know, nothing. No hi hidden or uh, agenda, just. Be present kind of thing. 

Yeah. Uh, it's just something that come to the top of my mind is like, you get, um, there's a big cars and coffee every month, first Saturday of the month out here.

Mm-hmm. 

It's like a thousand people show up. 

Yeah. 

But out of those, well, sorry, said a thousand people. I mean, a thousand cars so's like 3000 people that show up. Yeah. Uh, but you get like several hundred, you know, luxury and exotics and things like that out of these events. Sure. I'm like, those are people.

Maybe we're shaking hands and getting to know if you're looking to build, build the fund. But if you're passionate about the fund, like genuinely, and you want to make that thing a reality and a success, then the relationship is just the byproduct. Right? Sure. So you become passionate about the relationships because you're passionate about the fund.

Sure. 

Yeah. And then all of a sudden you are an outgoing person because you care about what you're doing. True. Does that make sense? Yeah. So. Todd, the conversation, uh, I think has provided a lot of value to viewers. Sure. Um, people who, who are maybe interested in this kind of stuff, uh, do you have any other advice that you would give to one, maybe somebody who's interested in getting into funds in the future or two that's interested in starting a journey of entrepreneurship?

Yeah. Um, I am. I'm deeply passionate about people's passions. I think the point of living life is for joy and happiness, and I like to see people who are doing what they're interested in, and they do it because they like it and they care about it. And it's not just something to make a quick buck. Mm-hmm.

Um, I think most people are in jobs that. They're only there because it provides a salary. It's not their true passion in life. And you know, I think taking that leap, even if it's hard or working on the side, I think it's always worth it to pursue something you care about. Um,

you know, always, always be learning. We talked about this a little bit already. Yeah. Prior, but like. Always take opportunities to grow your education, to grow your skills. But I think there's a, there's a trap with that in, you have to take action. You know, you could have a library full of books and you maybe have read them all, but if it doesn't lead to anything, it's kind of wasted.

Mm-hmm. And so that's, you know, taking action, applying what you've learned, making mistakes, you know. Failures are not the end. The only real failure is when you quit, if you give up. And so make the mistakes, regroup, do something different and kind of figure it out. So you 

shared some interesting points that I want to highlight.

I kind of, I think a couple episodes ago I was interviewing, uh, Braden Thomask, and I shared what I call the Entrepreneur Success Formula. And that success formula is two things. One, continuous learning. Two. Continuous action. Continuous effort. Right. And if you put continuous learning with continuous action mm-hmm.

As in you're taking so much action that it would be statistically unlikely for you to fail. And you're constantly learning how to better your process, how to become more efficient, how to do it better. 

Mm-hmm. 

You will find success, period. Like there's no. Failure is not possible if you're always getting better and you are always doing the thing that's moving the needle or driving the organization forward.

Right? So that's it. You hit it. That's just my summation because it's a like concept I've been playing with. It's cleaner. I like it. Yeah, I was trying to make it clean. Right on. You've, uh, again, provided a lot of value to the, the viewers, the organization today. Thank you. I said the organization. I don't have an organization.

This is me. This is, this is Parker McCumber. It is freaking, you know, bedroom filming videos. Um, pretty nice bedroom. Can I ask. Is there anything that I can do to provide value for you and your community? 

I, I think, you know, these, this coaching program, the reaching out to people and trying to, to help them with their problems and that support, I think is, is so valuable.

Um, because I think a lot of people will get stuck in their own heads or they have people in their lives who are maybe a naysayer or kind of doubting the dream. And so having someone who kinda, like I said earlier, who's walked the path. Who's found that success, who is encouraging, I think is, is extremely valuable.

And so we've felt that both me and my wife we're grateful for that. Um, and I think at the end of the day, that will be a catalyst for us finding our own success. 

Definitely. Take 

action. Keep learning. Will do. 

I appreciate having you on Todd. Thanks so much. It's a pleasure. Thank you. 

God, you're strong man.

Uh, so I was actually at the, I, um. I got this shoulder problem. I, I'm, I'm sure I've told you this before, in 2014, I dislocated, my shoulder was on active duty. Mm-hmm. They reset it and like I got, um, arthritis and like bursa from it. Mm-hmm. And every now and then I get the, these, I'll do, uh, uh, overhead press, or I'll try to do a pull up and I'll feel the joint snag on the biceps tendon or on the bursitis.

Yeah. 

And it's so freaking painful and like. When it happens, and like that swells as a result. Mm-hmm. It pinches off the nerve. My whole arm goes like numb. I get weak in my hand and things like that. So I'm at the massage therapist today. He's beating me up. He's got, he's, I got all these huge bruises right now from cupping to like alleviate the pressure and things and I'm like, I come out of that and like my arm's like numb and beat up a little bit and I'm like, I just feel like so limp and weak right now.

Uh, it's kind of funny. Anyways. Thanks for coming on, man. Of course. Glad to. That was it. This is, this is the show. There we go. This is uh, my Amazon built 

recording studio. That's pretty sweet. And the chairs are from Wayfair actually. They got just what you need. Yeah. 

I was like, I want to have kind of a classy look.

You know, I don't wanna, 

yeah. I don't wanna have a lame studio. I think it looks great. It's a good aesthetic too. 

And then I hung the pictures up for like visual hook. 

Something to catch an eye.