#21 - Staying Relentless While Chasing Your Dreams with Chance Mansfield

Unrelenting Pursuit: Navigating Entrepreneurship with Chance

Entrepreneur and golf technology enthusiast, Chance, joins the show to discuss the relentless pursuit of his dreams in business. Chance dives into his journey from studying business at BYU, learning the ropes of entrepreneurship, to operating his own indoor golf simulator business and working with golf technology. He also shares valuable insights into overcoming challenges such as lead generation, the importance of continuous learning, and the impact of a mentor. The conversation includes actionable strategies for young entrepreneurs and a deep dive into the importance of networking, data collection, and targeted marketing for business growth. Tune in for a motivational episode filled with entrepreneurship tips and personal anecdotes.

00:00 Introduction to Entrepreneurship Challenges
00:26 Chance's Journey into Golf Technology
02:16 The Influence of Family on Entrepreneurship
03:11 Educational Experiences and Early Career
05:10 Starting a Side Hustle: Indoor Golf Simulators
07:02 Marketing Strategies for Golf Simulators
12:34 Targeting Premium Clients and Networking
25:47 Joint Ventures and Business Expansion Ideas
35:28 Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
37:54 The Beginning of My Entrepreneurial Journey
38:13 Mindset Shift: From Get Rich Quick to Providing for Family
39:02 The Entrepreneur Success Formula
39:38 Overcoming Obstacles and the Importance of a Strong Why
40:58 Lead Generation Strategies
43:26 Paid Advertising and Targeting Audiences
45:45 The Power of Networking and Relationship Building
52:59 The Importance of Data Collection and Customer Feedback
58:18 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Transcript

0:06

As an entrepreneur, business owner and executive, it's hard sometimes to stay motivated and committed to your dreams when you run into obstacles. I'm here today with Chance, whose superpower is the relentless ability to pursue his dream chance. Tell me a little bit about what you do and who you are. Yeah I work in golf technology have for seven years and, I don't have a golf background and don't know really how I ended up, well, I know how I ended up here, but you know, it was kind of all in this pursuit of like entrepreneurship. And I think, you know, I've, I've learned a lot of lessons along the way of how I could have done it better. But, yeah, I'm trying to pursue the dream of being an entrepreneur. I don't feel like I've really hit. The level of success or abilities that I want to, but I'm definitely in the real relentless pursuit of it. We like the term relentless. Yeah. So I've known you for three, four years now. Yeah. We moved in in 2021, so about four years. And you've been pursuing this for four years, so I don't think, I mean, you said seven, but as long as I've known you, I mean so one, I don't think you give yourself nearly enough credit for the fact that most businesses fail in the first year. And then on top of that, you know, it's like 50% fail in the first year, but in the first three years you end up going to, like 70% of businesses fail in the first three years. By virtue of the fact you've been able to continually pursue the dream one, relentless two, there's a level of tenacity there, and I think it takes a very special individual two, one, get outside of the comfort zone, right. You. When you're pursuing business ownership and entrepreneurship, you don't have necessarily the same security when it comes to benefits and income. So it takes somebody who's legitimately a dreamer and somebody who has this tenacious about them. So tell me a little bit about maybe your background and what kind of led you into the business that you're in and how you started pursuing that dream of entrepreneurship. Yeah, so I grew up here in Utah, in Lehigh. And I think the idea of entrepreneurship came from my dad. so he worked in woodworking and cabinetry for all my life, still doing it. but for a while he was doing it for another company. He was employed by somebody and he got to a point where he felt like his skills and abilities he could take off on his own And do his own thing. And you know, he would always tell me, like, I would never go back and be employed by somebody else again. the ability to have the flexibility to have family time to control kind of your destiny. Like I wouldn't give that up. So that's what kind of started the thought in my mind, you know, as I approach college and trying to figure out what I wanna do. he would always talk about business ideas, different things that he, would come up with. so that got my mind churning, thinking about pain points that people have. What could you do inventions, whatever. the idea of entrepreneurship came from there. Went to BYU, studied business management on the entrepreneurship track. I think I approached it a little bit wrong, where it was more like. How do I study to get good grades and pass tests rather than like application of knowledge and like really embedding it in into your psyche and how you operate. It's funny you said that, actually. I've said it on the show before, but I believe I did my business management degree at UVU and university taught me all the ways to be unsuccessful as an entrepreneur. Like if you were actually applying what you were learning in class and you were sticking to what was being taught, I think it's more relevant if you wanted to go work for like a Fortune 500 company And just fit in as a cog in the machine, but it wasn't a good education for starting businesses. Yeah. And I think they made some attempts at it. You know, they had these programs where you go. And try to start your own business But I didn't feel like I walked away with the best education or the best mindset, and that's not all on them, but also on myself, where I got an opportunity right out of college to work with a buddy of mine that I grew up with, who started a web development company. And I started there as an intern and kind of had the mindset of like, this is great. I'm hitching myself to the coattails of like smart people and this will get me somewhere. And then once I have some money, I can start pursuing like my own dreams. And that was obviously the wrong mindset but it got me to where I am today where like, from there that morphed into direct marketing and, and I was always kind of the setup, onboarding, customer service type of person. And eventually the ownership of that company split up. And I joined the guy that took over the golf technology company. And so I was like, I kind of wanna do this anymore. I wanna come join you. I love sports, no background in golf. But I joined the team and that was seven years ago and loved the job, loved the technology. I think this year we've kind of turned a corner and done some things that are going to help us. but along that path and probably where I'll focus a lot of my comments today, I started my own side hustle, if you will. Built a couple of indoor golf simulator bays in PG and started that and. I'm learning a lot, and I'm thankful you said that three years is like a threshold.'cause I have made it to three years and now the challenge is like I'm having to really pivot what I'm doing there. And hopefully I can turn that into something more profitable. Yeah. The three year threshold is big for a lot of companies. Yeah. You cross that and typically by that point, I think what it really boils down to is you have enough experience and awareness. Like you kind of said you're starting to have to pivot, but it's not a pivot of impending doom and immediate failure. It's a pivot of, you know, the better way to go now. I hope so. it started out as a pending doom and failure. I was getting to the point where I might have to close my doors. And I had to get really creative. Gears, which is the company I work for, I have a small piece of ownership there. So like, I'm pretty loyal to, to them and have been but they were in need of an office. I had two bays, so I was like, you guys come and pay me the rent you've been paying over here, and you can have some of the access to the technology that I have there for kinda working through things. So they, they kind of covered my, that there and I've got one more, bay to operate out of, and then I'm trying to turn that into a more premium offering. I think there's, I don't know if you're familiar with the market, but there are a lot of simulators around, it's kind of like people get obsessed with golf and they're like, I'm starting an indoor simul company. mm-hmm. My neighbor that shed in his backyard. That's a golf simulator. Yeah. Like that's crazy. I'm a member down at Club Paddock in America Fork. They've got the big golf simulator. Like those things are popping up everywhere now. So there's obviously a, a pretty high demand for it. do you mind telling us a little bit about the business? most of our viewers are young entrepreneurs. They're in the process of starting, most are still in the solopreneur phase. They don't have employees or anything like that. part of the reason I started the show was that when I started my first company and my first e-commerce company, I kind of got tunnel vision. And I would sit in an office and I would stare at my computer and I would be trying to like, solve all of my marketing problems and call distributors and like figure everything out. I kind of stressed about it, but I carried the burden alone. And I never paid attention to the facts that there were other entrepreneurs, other business owners, other people who had gone through the same struggles and the pain points, and they had experienced, and they could offer help and insight. And I just, I focused on what I was doing. And I got through it. Yeah. If I would've asked. And so now that I'm a little bit more aware of that, I felt like this, obligation to essentially just share the information, talk to people about their pain points, their struggles, where they're succeeding, and hopefully get this information out to the next generation of entrepreneurs so that they can succeed. So that was kind of the thought and intent. Do you mind maybe telling us a little bit about, the business? So the model basically is, you build a facility out and then you have, monthly memberships. So whoever joins they pay monthly to basically, and there's different, rules or policies that different places have, but most of the time the monthly membership gets you access to unlimited time in the base to practice or play or do whatever. And it can be fairly hands-off. Like you build it, there's a key fob, you come in whenever you schedule your times, all kind of automated without need for like even intervention. And yeah, I think the model itself is decent. But what I didn't realize is like, I have no idea how to get people in the door. How do I reach the people I need to reach? And we launched and we got. Probably half of the capacity that We could actually hold, which is, it was decent, but, not profitable enough that this was the other piece. I didn't know, like summer weather. People don't, most people don't wanna be golfing indoors. They wanna be outside. Sure. Until it's 120 and then I want to be in adult, then they want to come back. Yes. I have had that recently. some people reaching out. but that's essentially the business model. So lead generation, sorry, we're already gonna break format. I know. I told you we go like personal business strategy. I love talking about this stout. So are you familiar with, a guy named Russell Brunson? Russell Brunson, Yeah. ClickFunnels marketing guy. He's one of my, my mentors. He teaches a concept of, The Dream 100 list. There's some modified versions of that. But essentially what it is, is you want to target your 100 most ideal customers, but how do you target them? How do you, how do you actually generate leads, you know, in those communities and spaces? And one of the things that he recommends is a podcast tour, essentially. So when you think about who's your ideal clients or who are your clients right now, and I would imagine that most of the people that go into a golf simulator are people who at least have an interest in golf. Generally speaking, they maybe get some top golf esque, people going just to hit balls a little bit. And I would imagine that most of the people that are interested in that or would frequent get a membership to something like that are pretty serious about eng golfing. Probably business owners, probably car guys. I mean, I think about the overlapping interest there. Yeah. And then you target all of those communities. So for me, it's Facebook groups. Like I get on entrepreneurship and e-commerce Facebook groups, and I just provide all the information that I can provide. But then people start DMing me and asking me questions. And then when they ask me questions, they create, they essentially push themselves into being a warm lead that then I can get into my pipeline. I can send 'em email marketing, I can, pitch 'em on like a coaching service. On that same vein, if you just can get out the word, about what you do a little bit. so I really like podcasts for that. You're primarily Utah County, right? Yeah. So you look at, look at the more heavily Utah County. Things and then just promote target, those people, those places. Hey, I've got this really cool thing. I'm sure I could provide a little bit of value to your audience. Do you own your own bay? Yeah. What do you mean? I'm a 60% owner. A facility. I mean, like where people can come in and do the golf simulator. Yeah. Build as the simulators for others. No, I, I own it. So yeah, we sublease a space and we built out two bays and people come in. People been knocking doors for time and memorial to make the sales right. I'm not saying you do that with golf, but I'm saying the concept has merit and that's why it's stuck around for so long. I wonder if there would be anything beneficial to like pitching businesses. For their like executives or C-suite or whatever. Hey, this is a, a perk or a benefit you could give your employees. And you pitch 'em a deal or something like that. I dunno, that's actually kind of the pivot I was, I was hoping to make is targeting like a more premium offering. Because everybody's pretty, pretty similar in their pricing, like, you know, between 1 99 to 300 per month for a membership. Whereas with Gears, like I have some unique advantages with Gears is an optical motion tracking company. we actually put retro reflective markers on the body, on the club and we track everything that's happening throughout the swing. we provide information that nobody can provide. And you've built that into your, simulator there. Awesome facility. Yeah. And so I want to target the more serious golfer that has expendable income, raise the price. I've also got a friend that's co office there with me who is certified in the body mechanics, like TPI is what it's called, title is Performance Institute. And he's highly certified in that to be able to, go through a physical assessment and then see kind of where people are with their bodies and what are their limitations and how to address those. So with that combined with the optical motion capture stuff, my unique offering that I feel like I could raise the prices and be a premium offering compared to other locations. And again, it's how do I find the right people to get in for that premium offering. But I think that's what I want to do is, is target those C-suite type of people. Yeah, I am. I default to this one a lot, but it's really good in, in my opinion, if you're trying to target premium people or premium, level people, let me reel myself in costs just as much effort on your part to sell a thousand dollars offer as it does to sell a hundred dollars, offer different people, very different people that are gonna buy those offers. Right. so it's really, I think, more the concept of getting into the circles where you have that target audience and clientele. for me, one of the things that helped with that was the cars supercar. when I got into my first supercar, it was a Porsche nine 11 GT three RS, and I took it to cars and coffee, and all of a sudden everybody wanted to talk to me. everyone wanted to come ask me what I was doing for a living. everyone wanted to shake my hand and ask me questions about how to do what, and it was. a night and day difference from the very week before, the month before when I went to cars and coffee and I was just a spectator. Getting into those circles maybe put me in proximity to a much higher level of individual when it comes to like business entrepreneurship success. so one that was great for my mindset because being in that level allowed me to shift my frame of reference. And in shifting your frame of reference, you can shift your identity, you can see more of what's actually possible. but it put me in a position where I was able to make deals with those people. I was able to get more coaching clients, or I was able to consult more businesses because they saw me with the car, and the car put me in their circle. So I wonder, you know, you look at golf. and you wanna have that high clientele. I would look at, those mutual interests. So again, not necessarily strictly targeting golf. Yeah. But you go find the people that are driving supercars or exotic cars. So you find the, real estate moguls perhaps is the right term for 'em out here, but, but those kind of things you target, you know, Keller Williams, the brokerage over there, and you get their top performers like, Hey, here's an incentive. But I would almost wonder it's finding the professionals that are already at that high level, they're already operating in some other area of mutual interest, and how do you get into those circles or those mutual interests would be the next, the next question. So I would think that. One, there's no replacement for network marketing, right? So you want to make sure that you are talking to people, establishing relationships, those kind of things.'cause at the end of the day, if you give somebody a really positive experience and conversation and just you rub off on 'em well, and you make a good impression, they refer you, they share that information, they'll talk to their friends. And it's just inherently a higher level of trust when it comes to network marketing to begin with. You can still do targeting, like I default often to paid ads just because e-commerce was my background. And so paid advertising is what was simple and effective for that. But it might not be the best way to go about targeting a high achieving clientele. I would also maybe consider the event right in your offer. It's not just they're coming out to the golf simulator, You need a waitress and you're gonna give 'em, you know, this awesome time, they're gonna come out and have so much fun. But outside of that, what can you use your space for to make that offer more premium? I would almost wonder, like, you come out, you have a, a golf simulator day and it's like a business networking. And like by joining your Essentially club, they get access to the networking events and the mixers and, I don't know. Yeah. Dinners with high level entrepreneurs or speaking events. I actually love that concept because I happen to also be, my space is above a really nice like functional fitness gym. And that gym has a lot of open space that gets cleared out perfect for like, events and having people parking lot outside for stuff like that. I think, that could be a really good way. I was gonna also get your opinion on something that I've started working on see if you think it'll be effective, I follow, you said, kind of find the group of people that would have overlapping interests. One of those that I've noticed is just entrepreneurs in general. There's a lot of entrepreneurs that love golf. And specifically, just down the road from me is Grit Marketing, which is a sales company that they go and sell for different pest control companies. so they're strictly focused on sales. They're not tied to those people. But a lot of their leadership and following their journey, a lot of their leadership is very heavily invested into golf. So I'm having Some golf balls made up with their logo on it and plan to go deliver it. Talk to 'em, have a conversation. Yeah. That's a smart way to go about that. I don't know how I'm getting into their office just yet, but I've started the process and hopefully, figure that out as I go. It's easy to get in when you have a gift like that. Because somebody will see it and they think it's cool if you, when you knock on the door, even if they're looking out the peep hole, you hold up a golf ball with their logo on it, somebody's gonna answer that door. Yeah, right. direct mail marketer guy, but he mails gifts. He finds out specific things about you that he can online, scroll your Instagram, scroll your Facebook, and then he sends you tailored gif. His package with a sales letter in them. So that you'll be like, oh, this guy look. Guy mailed me a little silver Porsche. GT three RS Matchbox car. But it was my exact car that I had at the time. And then, and he has a sales letter, Hey, if you wanna have really effective direct mail marketing, here's who I am. This is what I do. And yeah. I was like, oh, wow. That's actually a really cool concept. But he got in by sending that gift or that little unique thing that showed one he was interested in you and what you were doing. Two, it's memorable. Obviously maybe not memorable enough that I remembered his name, but it's memorable enough that I remember to tell the story. So I think something like that's a good concept. I am. Reminded also of, I think it's Gary Vaynerchuk he used to talk about this a lot, the go to work for free model. And it's a little bit crazy, but at the same time, in essence is what I did. I worked for free for two years and then reinvested everything into the business. That's what grew it. his recommendation was you get to get in with the people you want to get in with. Go do something for them. Go provide a value for free. The golf balls is a good way to provide a value for free because if they have an interest in that already, that's something that one, they're, oh yeah, that's really cool. But two, it's, Hey, this guy went out of his way to make these for us. And that's your invitation. I mean, 'cause right there, they're immediately a warm lead. just invite 'em over for a day. Let 'em come. Have a free session. Show 'em what it's about, Hey, on your next visit, oh gosh, this is so good. Okay, so if I ever got into the service industry, yeah, I've thought about it a lot, especially in restaurants. there's a concept in sales and marketing that if you get a customer three times, that customer will always think of your business first. When it comes to that niche, you share that space, right? So if I was gonna open a business or a service space, say it's a Chinese restaurant, 'cause they love Chinese food, you come in, I ask you, I'm gonna have the server ask you, is this your first visit with us? And if you say yes, you're going to get a coupon on your way out the door. And it's gonna be like, Hey, on your next visit, here's a free dessert or a free whatever. Something you didn't try, you incentivize them to come back for option number two. Even better, you put a little expiration date on it. That's like within the month. So then they come back within the month. The frequency maybe matters here. On day number three, you tell 'em, or when they come back for number two, you give 'em a coupon for number three. you give 'em a discount for number three and you say, Hey, we have this special off menu item that we're, you know, we're just about to test. Bring us this coupon on day three. We give it to you absolutely free. So then they come back for the third time. And then once they're down three times, so they came in once to try you, they came in second time.'cause you offered a dessert. They came in third time.'cause you offered some other special experience. And then you're in, you're the guy for those things. And if they have fun, even better. So how do you get 'em in the door three times is essentially what I would think about. And it's not necessarily. a membership might be steep upfront, The fall, I think those pick up a lot more.'cause people start thinking about the bad weather. They think about the season coming to the end, but then they're forward planning. And so that's when memberships probably spike is you get your fall into the winter months. But how do you get 'em in now? It's the middle of July for people. Whenever this gets published, it's probably in August. How you get 'em in now? Offer, the people the free experience. Hey, I like what you guys do, saw this stuff. I just wanted to invite you over some time. Totally on the house. When they're there, offer them an added value for the next visit. Now it's not a free thing necessarily, it's just, Hey, when you come by, I've got this really cool thing. Like, the motion tracker. Yeah. Yeah. Like don't give 'em that on the free visit. But if they come by and visit number two, tell 'em you'll hook 'em up to that stuff. Yeah. And then you'll, check their swing. If they're serious about golf, they want to know that stuff. They want that. Sure. They're probably like me setting up a tripod behind them trying to video their bad swing and see where they're slicing. So they come back for number two because you have something that adds value. Yeah. And then when they come back for number two, on number three, it's, Hey, I've got this promotion. Right now I'm only offering it to business executives, owners, entrepreneurs, people that, you know, really fit into this community and provide a lot of value here. and it's 20% off our yearly membership at, $200 a month, something like that. Yeah. But one, you're incentivizing the membership then on the pitch, and you're giving them the discount so they feel like they get the better value out of the entire conversation. Yeah. But they've come in three times now and you're already the guy for Yeah. A golf simulator now. I love that. Yeah. I hope that that's helpful Already wheels are spinning. I think there are lots of things I could do with that. at the end of the day, Lead gen's always really hard in the service industry because there's just so much competition when it comes to somebody's time. And you're not just competing with golf simulators, you're competing with race simulators, you're competing with go-karts, you're competing with the actual golf course, you're competing with things that take time. So how do you incentivize someone giving up their time and it's just gotta be a really good experience, a really cool event. Yeah. And if you can give them that three times in a row, it's a lock. Yeah. It's, that's just scientifically a lock. Yeah. So, awesome. I think, there are lots of things I can do there. one of kind of the side benefits of starting this indoor simulator place is that I wanna be able to take, I wanna make it successful to the point that I can take that knowledge and apply it to the gears customers. Mm-hmm. Because we're actually selling the motion capture system to golf instructors that have their own value. And so if I could, you know, I was always like, if I could perfect this model, then not only am I doing better myself, but I'm able to turn around and tell these customers, Hey, you purchased this product. We have a proven model of bringing people in the door, building a business, making money. Then you're selling a biz op. You're not just selling, you're not just selling the, Yeah. Okay. So that's really good too. Have you ever thought about what's it called? Joint venture. Joint Venture. That's what it's called. For example, you mentioned you're on top of a, like, CrossFit gym. And you mentioned you've got the guy TPI certified, is that what it was called? Guy certified? Yeah. So if you identify or he identifies somebody has a biomechanic that needs to be compensated for or adjusted, where do you send those people? Does he coach them through that in-house or do they need to go see a physical therapist or like, I mean, there's just a lot of things here. So my thought is if it's perhaps a muscle deficiency you refer 'em to the gym downstairs and in exchange the gym downstairs hands out flyers at the front desk that give anybody that wants to try your place 10% off. Yeah. I don't know. Things like that, that where, where you can benefit each other's businesses living in that kind of symbiotic environment, you're building relationships with those people downstairs. Those people downstairs have a good time. So they keep referring. I mean yeah, just kind of snowballs and, and I think, you know, when you think about something like. the muscle imbalance, or maybe it's an, an issue. Like I've got arthritis in my right shoulder, when I do swinging or throwing activities mm-hmm. Like throwing a football swing, a golf club repetitively, I get really sore and I gotta go in, I gotta get a massage, I gotta go see a physical therapist. But that's an opportunity for referrals. yeah. You know, those are ways that you can start generating leads without ever really putting in hard work to generate leads. It's just, Hey, I've noticed that my customers or some of the people that come by have x, y, Z problem or experience. How do we transition that to one, helping your business? And then when you're talking to a client and that client is interested in golf or athletics, send it my way. Yeah. you just find ways to build those kind of symbiotic relationships. if it's beneficial, like if you were to do that. You send somebody down there and they come back and they have a great experience, then they're more inclined to continue sharing because they know that their customers are gonna be happy with them. That they shared a good experience. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I told you about grip marketing. Mm-hmm. one of the other places that I'm making some balls for is called Flow House. Have you heard of Flow House? No, I haven't. it's an indoor, like contrast therapy place in pg, just down the road. Okay. I am familiar with contrast therapy. Yeah. But it's a unique twist where it's a guided group experience. So you actually go in with a whole bunch of people. You go through the sauna, you go into the cold plunge and you're having like sound bowls and somebody that's actually guiding the experience. You're not just doing it yourself. Sure. Anyway, that wellness community, I feel like is symbiotic with. Gym with golfing and with the TPI certified guy is, is actually a physical therapist as well. Oh, there you go. There is, there's some, some symbiosis there that can happen. Yeah I'm a big fan of that. I think a lot of it is just like we said, you identify those mutual interests, get into the communities or the spaces that those people are in and then it's how do we give 'em that great experience? We get 'em in the door three times, sell'em on the membership on the third visit. I mean that's how I would at least be thinking about tweaking that, that type of model and then the experience thing that can really just grow into as many different ways as you want it to grow. Yeah. I mean, east Side built a, the little stage out there, I'm trying to host masterminds where I just invite, you know, eight to 10 business owners. They come in, we spend, you know, essentially a day sharing what was working for us. And then asking for help, what our biggest obstacle is. And then the whole room works together. We try to give you a good course of action or a plan that'll help you move through your obstacle and then next person comes up, they share what's working for them. They ask for help room works together to solve their problem. But I'm like, you could do something like that there. And it's cool because you do maybe a catered lunch and you get two hours on the simulator as a break. And yeah, there's just so much room and especially where you're trying to get into, that premium offering, higher clientele, what are those people looking for? And what are they doing with their time and effort and energy? How can you help level them up more? And it's the networking and the connections. And so I think, you have a really unique opportunity to fit that into the business model as well. Okay. So we talked a little bit about, actually, sorry. I just have another question. Yeah. So you mentioned you come in, you build the simulator, like everything, what's the, I guess, space requirement for something like that out of curiosity? it totally varies. But generally you want something like at least 10 to 12 feet wide ceilings, probably at least nine feet. So you're already, perhaps even without tacking in the gears, golf, like motion tracking stuff, you're already selling the full business opportunity essentially as well. So you have the experience end on your part 'cause you have your bays or your location, but then you also are selling that to other people? No. Okay. The. So we just sell the memberships with what we built. Gotcha. and then the gears portion, we sell to people with existing base. So Gears itself is not a simulator. it's basically an add-on that would differentiate you, but it's for instructors, golf instructors to diagnose benchmark fit clubs properly. it's the only system that measures what the golf shaft does during the swing. So we're uniquely positioned to help people and it's benefited a lot of tour players even. that's what we sell. We don't sell the Bay itself, although I've, considered what. One of my problems is focus. but I have considered, you know, what if I start building simulators for people? But I think that, I thought you had said you were doing that at the start of this, so that's where I got confused. I wanted to just double check. Yeah, no, we built it out ourselves to sell monthly memberships and then gears we sell to, so those are two different businesses, gears we sell to, golf instructors who typically have a bay. So not to, add layers of complexity to everything here. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, simplification it's the secret to scaling a business. The simpler you can make your process, the easier you can scale and replicate. But as a big ticket offering, I don't know what a golf simulator runs probably like 20 grand, 30 grand maybe all built out. There's so many options there. It depends on what, what technology you're going for. You could go 50 to a hundred grand. For a nice simulator build in the, the years golf stuff and you have a hundred grand simulator. Okay. Here's why I ask. I've noticed an increasing trend in Utah County, but if it's in Utah County, it's probably wider reaching Of like the man cave concept. People buy if 1300 square foot flex space warehouse type deal, and they go park their toys there and they set up their golf simulators there. But I'm like, if you can get in with, you know, a handful of different, you know, developers or real estate agents, you could just have flyers or handouts or whatever go stage at those places before somebody buys them. Hey, we'll do this for you. I think, probably getting in with the real estate people is a good idea. I think that's where you find, well, a lot of real estate agents. Golf too. So I'm like, that one seemed like a no brainer to me. You get in with a couple brokerages or a couple, Different agencies and I'm like, one, you have that interest there. Two, they can perpetually generate leads for the simulator development. because I know like when I am looking at buying a new property or looking at buying, warehouse space or something like that, I talk to my agent about what it needs to be able to accommodate or what I would like to be able to do with the space. Yeah. So I'm like, if they know already, hey, we need a 12 foot wide, X amount of square footage have to be able to hang the projector, but like, if they know that stuff, they can also share the referrals. Hey you know, if you sell us a hundred thousand dollars fricking bay installation Yeah. We'll give you a 2% commission on that. Mm-hmm. They're incentivized to just keep, keep sending, essentially sending you that stuff. Yeah. And then it's a win-win on both sides. Yeah. Because I would imagine a hundred thousand dollars Bay installation probably costs 30 grand in simulator stuff. You maybe look at 20 grand to frame it out or whatever else, additional stuff. But I'm like, there's a probably a pretty big profit margin in that. Yeah. If, if you can create it, you know, consistently. Yeah. especially if you could turn, you know, one a month or something like that. That's a, it's a million dollar business right there. Yeah. But even better is you do that, you hit 'em with the Gears golf as the upsell to that thing and you just Really take it next level for 'em. Okay. We're going, we're cruising. And to be honest, this is like, an area of business that I don't talk about often or get involved with. Because my background was e-commerce and retail, and then kind of transitioned into, leadership and team development coaching. So service-based industries. I love to think about 'em, but I know it's like, it's not necessarily my strongest wheelhouse, conversation. So we've talked about your background a little bit. We've talked about the business a little bit. Really, we've, we've already started kind of beating on the strategy. you mentioned that there were obstacles that you've maybe overcome or that you faced and things that you would do differently. Do you have any advice for people who are aspiring to start a business or who will maybe have started a business and are just struggling to get through the first few months? Yeah, absolutely. find a mentor, I think finding a mentor is crucial. Get started early. Like, don't wait to do what you want to do to pursue your dream, I thought, later when I have more money, that's when I'll do it. But then later you have kids and a wife. Yeah. And your time is taken with them and as it should be. and so it makes it a little more difficult to like heavily invest into something that you wanna start. So like, find a mentor, get started early, like just go for it. And then expect to work like. To succeed, you have to continually work. You have to continually educate yourself. Like you don't hit a point of Yeah. You're saying all the things that I want to touch on. I love it. Yeah. And education you touched on as well isn't just going to school. Correct. It's getting the experience like hands-on. Yeah. And, that's really the, the best way to learn. So yeah. I see posts sometimes on Instagram or Facebook and have a, you know, what would you go back and tell your 12-year-old self Yeah. You know, what would you change? And sometimes we're at a, at a car event or something like that, kids will come up and ask me, you know, what, what advice would you give somebody that wants to be able to get a car like that one day? And for me it's always. Two things, two pieces of advice and, and you touched on both of them. The first is that I would've invested in myself a lot sooner. I joined the Army right outta high school, did a little over five years on active duty, transitioned into the Utah National Guard, and I've loved that process. But in hindsight, if I would've started investing in myself at a younger age, or even throughout that process of like, while I was in the military, investing in my education or my, my skill development a little bit more, or even just investing in like fricking Bitcoin or ETFs or something back then, I wish I would've done investing in any level. But it wasn't even on my radar. It wasn't on my mind. And it wasn't really till I started going to school. I started going to UVU again for that business management degree, I never actually invested into myself. Until 20 end of 2016. Beginning of 2017 is when I started my first company. And to be honest, I wasted the first two years of that because I was trying to hit everything out of the park. I was trying to just get rich quick type stuff. instead of get Rich quick, I got $0 for two years. when my wife told me that she was pregnant with our first child, our son Franklin, I realized it was like something clicked totally different in my mind, and all of a sudden, instead of get rich quick or hit it out the park, it was, how do I put food on the table for an extra mouth? So there was a little bit of a mindset shift. Everything became a lot more serious and a lot more real. So I had to essentially just focus on what moves the needle a little bit in the right direction every single day. Instead of trying to hit it big and earn something that I never put the work in for, it was you have to put the work in and earn you, essentially earn it for yourself. So in, in doing that, I mean, it took me, I wish I started, you know, seven or eight years earlier, but I, that's just the reality of the situation. So in hindsight, I would invest early. The second part you talked about is what I call the entrepreneur success formula, continuous action. But continuous learning equals success. If you take so much action that it's statistically unlikely for you to fail You will not fail. And if you're constantly learning how to do it better, More efficient, more effective, better, you know, cost per dollar type deal, then you win. You just win. Eventually. if you keep learning how to do it better and you keep taking action, you will not fail. Yeah. The hard part is people run into obstacles that they can't necessarily see a way around it. They don't necessarily have the frame of reference to know what's possible, how to work around, how to get over it, and they shut down, or their why maybe isn't strong enough. We talk a lot on the show about having a why that is strong enough to overcome the obstacles or the opposition that you can face. So that you can push through it. I think a lot of that stems from your passion. You should be working in a field that is interesting to you. Because if you're interested in it, if you have a passion around it, then you're more likely to make one authentic content and authentic connections with your customers and your people. Yeah. But also you have a purpose that drives you when the obstacles of the opposition becomes strong. A lot of people shut down. They take consistent action up to an obstacle. And then if they don't continue learning, they just stop. And I think it's the biggest killer. That's why you have so many businesses fail in that first year. Mm-hmm. And then even more businesses fail in the first three, If you keep taking action, you keep learning how to do it, you will succeed. Agreed. I had to look right at the camera for that one. Really? That was good. Yeah. I hope so. I love that you shared both of those concepts, because those are my two favorites, at the end of the day. Beautiful stuff. Okay. So you mentioned, the advice for the entrepreneur, but what, as far as, if we got specific into the strategy, we would talked a little bit about lead gen. what other obstacles have you maybe encountered in the last few years that you've been able to kinda work around that might be, beneficial for somebody who wants to start a business? Oh man. Lead gen is a tough one. One of the things that I do in like info products and coaching, just to share it, is, the concept of a lead magnet. And if you're not familiar with the lead magnet, essentially what it is, is something that you can give away for free or very low cost upfront. For example, I do leadership and team development coaching. I give away a little ebook, it's called Command Philosophy, the Art of Scaling Leadership. And it teaches the pillars of building a command philosophy inspired by military leadership. It teaches you one, how to write a very clear mission statement. Two, how to refine a very clear and concise vision statement so that your mission statement's, like your why, why you exist, why you do what you do. Your vision statement is where you're going as an organization or an entrepreneur, and then your non-negotiables, and that's like your left and right limits, what you're gonna operate within. You take those three pillars, they influence how you want to be perceived as a leader and how you want to actually effectively engage with your organization and your customers. then you craft your command philosophy out of that influence essentially how you're going to lead, how you wanna be perceived as a leader and what that actually looks like. Yeah, business leaders take that, plug it into how they run their teams and their organizations, and typically you see a transition or a transformation in the team's effectiveness because they just have a lot more clear. Why they're there, where they're going, why it matters, how they're gonna do it. At the end of the day, systems scale organizations, but it's the people that scale the systems. So that's the lead, the free, guide. I get out. I run paid ads to that landing page. People go, they sign up, they get the ebook confirmation, and thank you. Let's 'em view a via a video sales letter where I essentially pitch them on coaching. 99% of people just say no to that, but I've got your email and your stuff, and then you're a warm lead and I can cultivate that lead over time and then you come back. So that's one method of lead generation. Second method of lead generation, which kind of goes hand in hand with this, was, paid ads Advertising in general is good for lead generation. The problem is. Facebook, meta, Instagram, all those places, they're so efficient on the front end. Like you go start a small budget, $10, whatever, they will find every lead they can find for you at that $10 mark. But then all those easy leads are dried up. Yeah. So you have to actually segment who you're targeting based on their, you know, are they a warm lead, a cold lead, are they hot? And then your messaging is different to each of those different segmentations. Just takes a lot of work on the front end to actually identify who your audiences are, refine the target audiences on the social media platforms, and then segment your messaging in paid advertising to each of those groups. That's a really effective way to do paid advertising. I use a formula called, PN pad. It stands for positives, negatives, problems, anxieties and desires. And that's how we structure our advertising text. Shout out to Michael Meyer, the, meta Advertising Goat. That's who I learned it from. Okay. Nice. So essentially we do our research. We look at competitors, we look at our reviews. What are the positives people have? What are the negatives people have? We tailor our messaging around those by agitating problems and anxieties and giving them our product or solution as the desire that they have. Okay. Yeah. So that's the short way of that explained that format works really well with paid advertising. So we have paid advertising. I talked about the lead magnet. You can use a lead magnet with organic traffic as well. Mm-hmm. Just by making Facebook posts, Instagram posts, Twitter posts, whatever. Yeah. Trying to have a, a really good hook on the front end. Everything at the end of the day. And marketing comes down to a hook story and offer. So you have a really good hook. You stop the scroll, you get their attention. You offer the book, but you tell the story of how you've got the information in the book and why it's important for them. And then the books they offer, it's a free book. Hey, download the free guide or the free biomechanics of golf Guide. So lead, lead magnets can be paid or organic. And then the third one I like is the network marketing piece. And that's kinda what you're doing already. You're going, you're talking to people, you're developing, relationships with people. You're getting those custom golf balls made that makes a connection immediately and shows one you're interested. Two, you took the time to do something special and unique to them. It's not like you're walking around taking everybody a box of chocolates. that could just be generic and given to anybody. It was, you did something specific to that group as a lasting impact as far as the relationship goes. So I'm a big fan of that. oh, and we talked about the Dream 100 list a hundred ideal customers or locations for those customers. For some people it's like, find the top 100 golf podcasts. And just go pitch all of them. And not necessarily spammy pitch, but it's, you think good and hard about like, how can I provide value to that audience, whether that's through the gear, software and technology, or whether that's through the experiences side of, what you do. But pitch those to those podcast hosts, right? You can go on Apple, you can view like the top a hundred podcasts in every niche. Mm-hmm. Same thing on Spotify, search on YouTube, But reach out to those people, target those people and maybe 97 of 'em tell you no, but maybe three lets you come on and you end up getting some leads from that. Yeah. So I would try to do any kind of podcast or YouTube channel or social media that you can participate in. Just to share what you do. And why it's really cool. Those are my big lead gen ideas right now. I like' em. So let's start other strategy or other obstacles. Okay. yeah, that's where we were building to, sorry, I'm getting, we're in the flow state and then I lose track of what we were doing before. No, you're good. So strategy wise We've, we're overcoming lead gen. What other obstacles have you maybe faced that would be beneficial to talk through? The other obstacle that comes to mind is like the weather issue. And so that's, you know, overcoming that is specific to other, golf simulators. And the way I, I've done that this year luckily is just, you know, renting out one side and they cover all of my overhead and so everything else is pure profit and, but that's, you know, very specific to indoor golf team leaders. Yeah. aside from that, just kind of like lack of knowledge or understanding, like, you know, I thought it was kind of a build it and they'll come type of thing and wasn't like you, you have to have the knowledge and the work ethic and the know-how to get, get people in the doors, which, have, I've got some great. Tips here, which is, which is awesome. But yes. Yeah. I actually hate the philosophy of build it and they'll come. I hate it.'cause the reality is if nobody knows that it's built. Exactly. Nobody can come. Yeah. And there's this misconception, I think especially a lot of entrepreneurs when they're young, think about when you were a kid or in, you know, high school or something like that. Everywhere that you go, your parents take you. Yeah. So someone already knew about it to take you there. You didn't necessarily know about it initially. But we never recognize how people learned about those things to begin with. Whether it was referral or an advertising on the radio or a billboard or whatever. So you get this generation of, of youth essentially. Most of the people I coach are pretty young, like sub 28, and. They all struggle with the lead generation on the front end. And it's not necessarily that they struggle with how to do it, it's that they just don't do it. They have the mindset of if we build it, they'll come. But the reality is nobody knows about us and nobody can tell. The best way to get just immediate, throw something out there and get some, some leads or at least a little bit of engagement. And you can cultivate the engagement into leads is do, like on meta paid ads, they have different ad campaigns. So you can do like one that's specific to trying to get conversions. You can do one that's awareness that will show your ad to people. you can get one that's specific to people that are gonna like click and try to read more. Those kinda things. Target I like to tier mine, I do different campaigns, for different, warm hot cold leads, right? But a really good way to build awareness. you said you're Utah County mostly. So just create an advertisement that targets Utah County. Throw five bucks a day at it. It doesn't even have to be a lot. Right? it's an awareness ad. It's not trying to get sales. You're just starting the awareness. And then all those people who engage with your awareness ads, those become warm leads. Because now they've seen you, they're aware of you. So then you start your next tier of campaign, which is the traffic ads. So you did awareness, now you're doing traffic. The point of those is to reengage those warm leads and get 'em to click on your website, get 'em to learn more about your page, whether that's sharing about your offers, sharing about your events, sharing about the space, get 'em to at least pique their interest a little bit more. Yeah. And then those people, if they've done both of those actions. That's when you run the campaign to that third audience, that third level audience. That's how do we make the sale Similarly to how we did the three visits, three touchpoints. Get 'em with three touchpoints on social media before you pitch to 'em, essentially. Yeah. So you have the awareness, you have the traffic, then you run like a video sales letter or something like that at the $200, you said about $200 a month. Is that what that's what most people do. I want to elevate that. Gotcha. To, you know, price tv. I'm thinking for comparison, a Topgolf membership for the free play for a bay, that one is $2,495 a year. That comes out to what? A little bit, 300 bucks a month. It's my math right there. Okay. So that's their bay rate. It's hard to go over that. I mean, I would just think because except for the winter. The winter it's easy to, yeah. To beat that, I would think. But people go to Topgolf, they have a really good time, right? You get to play the different games. People are bringing you food and drinks. Granted you're paying for your food and drinks. So maybe you do something like, you know, include free soft drinks in the stay. Just something little bit that, and it's to you include the gear stuff. If you can include that. Anything that's differentiates, that's how you tear yourself up. I think the best things for me that have worked at the two to $300 level is. Create like a, essentially a landing page. It's a long form sales letter with a video sales letter at the top. And, again, everything's the hook, the story, and the offer. So the hook is how do you snag their attention, get 'em to watch the video. The story needs to talk about how you found this as like this awesome solution for people that need to have this golf experience. Mm-hmm. Or maybe they need a button that says, Hey, give us a call. Or come on in and schedule a free session today. And then the in person is maybe where you make the pitch and you kind of refine that as you go based on the touch points and the conversations that you're having. Something that most entrepreneurs do really badly is data collection. If somebody goes through those steps and they don't purchase from you, follow up and ask why. find out where they either were turned off or what was the reason they didn't jump in or buy into the service. And then just when you identify a pattern, like maybe you had 10 people that didn't buy in a month, you go back, call all 10 of those people, find out what they liked and what they didn't like. Yeah. Target the things they like, solve the problems they didn't like. And then your next 10 people probably becomes like four or five people. Yeah. And then you do the same process again and you just continuously improve that way by collecting the data points from the prospective customers of leads. Yeah. I'm a big fan of that. It's actually I learned that from a guy named Trey Lou Ellen who was like selling flashlights on the internet Would, get people to come through his page. And if they didn't buy a flashlight, but they had gone through his landing page and given him the contact information, he would call 'em and say, Hey, why didn't you buy a flashlight? And they would say, oh, I only buy like a tactical flashlight. I only buy things if they're tactical. oh, Okay. Hangs up the phone, edits the website, tactical flashlight, but then all of a sudden the sales start to increase. Next person doesn't buy. Hey, why didn't you buy my flashlight? Well, it didn't say anything about it's weather rating or waterproofing Oh, okay. Got it. IPX seven. Waterproof. Yeah. But like he just collected the data not to go back and make the refinement on his offer. Yeah. And then it's a, it's a higher converting offer. Yeah. And it's not even necessarily refining the offer. Right.'cause for example, in his story, the flashlight didn't change. Yeah. It was just he wasn't presenting the information in the way that they wanted the information presented. Yeah. The flashlight always had the ability to be mounted on the front rail of an AR 15. He just didn't say that in his sales page. Yeah. And the flashlight always had the ability, or it was always IP X seven rated could go 30 meters or whatever underwater. It always had that ability, but it wasn't front and center. And so it was like you identify what your customers actually wanna see and then just give 'em that. Yeah. Without changing your offer. Yeah. Because you already have the building, the facility. The means to provide all that stuff. It's there. It's just how do you package it in a way that most resonates with those Customers. that's great advice. I think that's one thing I've done poorly is like, I've got a lot of information from people who've come in, haven't purchased, have purchased, whatever, you know, come and go. But I rarely do anything with that or, make it actionable. So love that. Just add a survey, like whenever somebody comes, give 'em a survey right at the end. Or last 15 minutes they're there or something like that. Really good idea. Super good idea. Love this. The, grit guys, right? You wanna invite 'em out? People don't always like getting something for free. Feels a little bit weird In modern society, but here's what you do. You can invite anyone to come out for free because it's not for free. Would they please help you with that survey? Yeah. You're building your data points then. Mm-hmm. And then, the more people that you bring in for free, but it's for the survey. Yeah. So I would frame it in the way of, Hey, I'd love to have you guys over. I'll totally cover the costs on the house, but what I need from you is I need you to fill out the survey so I can learn about how the experience is so that I can make it better for my next customers. And then people feel like they're helping you. Mm-hmm. And they feel like they're doing something for you in exchange. It makes 'em more likely to actually do it, but it makes them more invested in the process. Mm-hmm. there's a concept in, in coaching business in general where if someone's not invested in something, they take it less seriously. They're less likely to actually be interested in it in the long run. Yeah. So for them, the investment is filling out that survey. Then all of a sudden they, they're. Assessing their situation while they're there, they're assessing whether or not it's a good experience. It's not just we're gonna show up and goof around with our friends, it's, Hey, we're doing something and helping someone, and we're having a good time doing it. Yeah. Typically you get better reviews, I think, anyways from that. So you have 'em fill out the survey and then have 'em do like a Google review or a Yelp review. The Google reviews is actually a really big one, across the board for all my businesses. If I get good Google reviews, we populate higher on Google's, you know, recommendations, things like that. but people will buy from us exclusively because we have, 1500 Google reviews that are five stars. Yeah. Whether that's just a QR code on the table or something like that. Make it really easy for people to give you a good review. Yeah, one of the cool things about golf is it's built for networking. I could create a really good experience, to bring people in and get those data points. Because people, I've got Texas Roadhouse for example. It's like, I want come in, I'll trade you, a catered meal. You know, I could, I could create some cool experiences, I think. And I think that's a, that's a great idea. So I, I appreciate it. Yeah. Alright. Go team. Any, so by virtue of, actually you came, yeah. We had this conversation. You provide a, a lot of value to my audience both through the conversation, but also as the conduits maybe for ideas to just get Yeah. Fat out. Yeah. You need lots of help and you've been able to provide it. Yeah. I, I like to ask at the end then. Yeah. Be in exchange for this. Same thing. You gotta be invested in it. Yeah. What value can I provide to you and your community? Man, that's a good question. I mean, 'cause I, I feel like the value's been provided in the conversation and the ideas that you've, that you've given based on your experience. Sure. But that's for them. What can I give you? I mean, it's me two, but it, you know, we're all hooked. one of the ways you provided value is like, you know, employing my son who mows your lawns in several locations. We support young entrepreneurs. Yeah. And you know, one of the things, like most of the people you mentor are younger. Mm-hmm. And, I've been really trying to, pass on to him things that I didn't. Understand. And so you, employing it has, been very helpful because he's really built something that I'm like, now I'm gonna start taking advice from him. You know, he's listening to Alex Hermo podcasts and we love the Hormo podcast. Yeah, yeah. And, so yeah, you've provided value there to my family and to my son and to me trying to coach him as he builds his own business. Aside from that, I mean, anybody that sees this, feel free to, hit me up. I'd love to talk to anybody about golf. my facility is called BoomStick Golf Club. so on Instagram, BoomStick golf, that's the best place to kind of DM me. And I, you know, from there, I've, I've got a lot of contacts in golf that, that if it's not my facility, I can provide value to you in other ways. So feel free to reach out any, anybody that wants to talk. Golf clubs, shafts getting out on the course, whatever. So I know nothing about any of those things. But I try to golf a little bit. So I'm in the National Guard. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like expected for officers to golf and I didn't really know that until I became an officer. And then, yeah, people are inviting me to golf and I'm like, I'm horrible at golf. Yeah. Just fail constantly. I went and I bought some like, sticks clubs, if you're familiar with brand, direct to consumer brand. Yeah. They're pretty good, I think. But I'm like, I know nothing about that world. I'm trying. Well, it's, it's actually insane. Like I said, my, my background is not golf, but like how highly technical and advanced like golf is and, and golfers get with numbers and data. Mm-hmm. so we're actually with the gear system, we collect how the shaft moves down to the like 0.2 millimeters of accuracy. Wow. And that directly impacts how your club face is like delivered to the ball. If you think about how a shaft moves through the swing, like it's being pulled in several different directions. There's like the x, y, Z axis. Mm-hmm. You know, it's being pulled this way with the weight of the club head. It's being pulled this way inverse from your swing. Yeah. And then gravity drag, it's twisting vertically. all of those things impact, like what happens to the ball flight. Mm-hmm. And so. I think and hope that the industry is going more towards fitting clubs because you could be in totally a wrong set of shafts For your, you know, for your swing. Where, you know, there are different profiles of shaft that bend at different points and have different stiffnesses and, so it's, it's kind of interesting. It's a very interesting world. You can really dive deep on it. But yeah, you gotta come in for a fitting. Love it. Pitching. You love it. Thank you so much for coming on to doing the show. Appreciate you chance. Yeah. Thank you Parker. And then will you send me, any link? Parker City Council? Parker McCumber, vineyard City Council. Sweet. Thank you. I appreciate hopefully there was something in there that was, there was, you know, people always want, they, how do I frame my thought? The concept of imposter syndrome is real. It is hard for people to escape, but you are doing the damn thing. I recognize how many people fail early and they give up the last few times I've talked to you or we're messaging back and forth and you're talking about like, ah, I'm a failed entrepreneur. I'm not doing it. I'm like, dude, you are still doing it. Which means you're not failed. and I'm convinced that I will get there. I don't know if that's just like unfailing optimism and belief in myself, but I'm convinced that, like, it kind of comes from Alex or Moey where I'm like, he's like, you don't, you don't fail if you don't give up. Exactly. you keep learning. You keep taking action. You do those two things. You win, you will win. It's just a matter of time. Good stuff. Thanks for having me. if you ever have a question or you need something, feel free to reach out. I'm happy to just be a sounding board if nothing else. While I might suck at golf, I am really good at business. I don't know why, but it's working for me, I guess. I didn't, I don't know if it's still rolling, but I also suck at golf. just to be upfront. like I said, that was not my background. I was baseball and basketball and baseball got me into some basics are the same, like keeping your left arm straight through the golf swings very difficult for me. So it's like, I'm not great at it, but learning, so if you're interested, I told you I imposter syndrome, I experience with two. So I built this stage out here. I'm trying to I'm gonna do something there now that I got barbed videography. Maybe it's more real. Do you have any interest in participating if I do one of those mastermind events? Absolutely. Sweet, sweet. That's one reason I came off here is I about doing it and like no one shows up and I'm like I know people would show up like, yeah. Actually tipping point in my mind. Last night before, what's that last night? It was Tuesday before we had everybody over. I was like, ah, what if nobody comes like, I'm like, well, if one person comes really good for them, I get to talk to them. Yeah. They get my undivided attention. Yeah. But I'm like, what if nobody comes? I'm like, we had 30, 40 people show up. Yeah. It was a good turnout. It was way better than I anticipated. Yeah. And I'm like, I just invited people that had engaged with me or my campaign page. Mm-hmm. That was it. So just I'm like, there was support there that people showed up. So maybe if I did something that I'm actually good at, people would show. Yeah, no, for sure. I think, I think that was kind of why I came and did this, is like, you just gotta do something outside of your comfort zone if you want to grow. And like, you could probably tell from my messages, I was very like, eh, I don't know. I don't know if I have anything, but I'm like, everybody's got something's gonna do it. another thing Russell Brunson teaches, man, all this stuff has gotta get included still. It's great. It's great stuff. One of the concepts he teaches have you ever read the book Expert Secrets? No. Okay. Really good book. Totally recommended. Is it Russell's? It is. A Russell Book talks about the concept of expert business or expert individuals, right? Mm-hmm. The reality is a lot of us have reservations about thinking about ourselves as an expert because we don't feel qualified for whatever X, y, z reason that we put in our head. The. Reality of a situation is that you have a totally unique perspective to anyone else in the world. Your background, your experiences as a child, youth, marriage, your formal education, like all of those and your work experience obviously all work together in a way that no one else in the world has because no one else lived your life. Yeah. So in there somewhere is things that are uniquely valuable to different people and audiences. And it's just like, how do we find those things that make us a uniquely qualified expert and then share and portray those stories. Yeah. Really cool concept. Yeah. But when you frame it in that lens, everybody is an expert in something. Everyone has overcome their fair share of obstacles or different things, so it's like I get really fascinated by that concept. So I don't believe it when people tell me stuff like, I don't know what I, everyone's got it. They just don't know they got it. We'll fish it outta there. I'm bad at fishing too, but I try. But yeah, you do a mastermind. I'd, I'd love to come. Thank you. Yeah, so I, I have absolutely nothing bland, but I built a stage, I bought a bunch of chairs. I set up that room. I was like, we'll cater lunch up here. You know, just have a day. Texas Roadhouse owes me like 600 bucks worth of food. I could do something for you, dude. We love Texas Roadhouse. One in Lehigh American Fork up inward. Yeah. Happy to do something like that, but I'll, I'll definitely come participate now. Do that at your location. That's what we do. We do an event at, at in place. Yeah. And then when you have lunch, you give them two hours or whatever, have lunch, play on the simulator. You know, you do those things and then you mastermind in the morning and afternoon block, but then you give them the day and then at the end of it, you can still pitch 'em on joining. Yeah. There you go. Gosh, we went. It goes. This is all bonus footage. Yeah. I've never done bonus footage like this before.