#39 Why Working Harder Keeps You Broke | Jess Phillips

Entrepreneur mindset, financial freedom, business growth, wealth building, scaling a business—Jess Phillips explains why grinding harder may actually be holding you back.

In this episode of Based Business, Jess Phillips shares how relying purely on logic, hustle, and constant grinding can become a weakness for entrepreneurs—and why intuition, mentorship, and opportunity recognition matter more than most people realize.

After rebuilding his confidence through sales at Verizon, Jess learned “wealth thinking” from billionaire clients and helped pioneer one of the first solar loan structures before buying and scaling Temporary Power Services from roughly $300K in revenue to over $2M in profit.

But his biggest insight?

👉 Most entrepreneurs don’t need to work harder…
they need to think differently.

💡 In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why overworking can actually slow business growth
• How wealthy people think differently about opportunities
• Why trusting your gut matters in entrepreneurship
• The “Rainmaker Triad” framework for partnerships
• How Jess scaled a company to multi-million-dollar profits
• Why fun is a powerful indicator for business alignment
• How mentorship and coaching accelerate success
• The mindset shifts required to build financial freedom
• What Freedom Reserves is and how it helps accredited investors preserve liquidity

🚀 Who this is for:

• Entrepreneurs feeling burned out or stuck
• Business owners trying to scale sustainably
• High performers trapped in hustle culture
• Investors interested in cash management and financial freedom
• Anyone looking to grow wealth without sacrificing their life

🔗 Connect with Jess Phillips:

🌐 Freedomreserves.com
📸 Instagram: @jessphillips
💼 LinkedIn: Jess Phillips

⏱️ EPISODE TIMELINE — Based Business with Jess Phillips
 

00:00 — Why Logic Alone Can Destroy Your Success
 02:05 — Meet Jess Phillips & Freedom Reserves
 04:20 — The Temporary Power Services Acquisition
 07:10 — Buying a Business With Limited Resources
 10:45 — Early Entrepreneurial Mistakes & Setbacks
 14:18 — Rebuilding Confidence Through Verizon Sales
 18:02 — Why Sales Skills Change Your Entire Life
 21:30 — The Difference Between Rich Thinking & Poor Thinking
 25:12 — Learning Wealth Principles From Billionaire Clients
 29:44 — The Solar Finance Opportunity That Changed Everything
 34:06 — Creating One of the First Solar Loan Structures
 38:15 — Gut Instinct vs Data-Driven Decisions
 42:11 — When Hustle Becomes a Weakness
 46:08 — The Hidden Dangers of Overworking
 50:24 — Entrepreneurs Build Their Own Prison
 55:40 — Freedom vs Achievement
 58:02 — Why External Validation Is a Trap
 01:01:33 — Scaling Temporary Power Services to Multi-Million Profit
 01:06:18 — Creating New Revenue Verticals
 01:10:47 — How to Scale Without Starting Over
 01:14:02 — “If It’s Not Fun, I’m Going Home”
 01:18:30 — The Full Body Yes Philosophy
 01:22:16 — Burnout, Alignment & Enjoying the Process
 01:26:05 — The Rainmaker Triad Explained
 01:31:12 — Partnerships & Building Winning Teams
 01:35:24 — Mentorship, Coaching & Seeing Opportunities
 01:39:18 — The Entrepreneur Identity Trap
 01:43:40 — What Freedom Actually Means
 01:46:12 — Building Wealth Without Losing Yourself
 01:49:02 — How Freedom Reserves Works
 01:52:15 — Accredited Investors & Cash Management
 01:54:40 — 1031 Exchanges, Liquidity & Yield
 01:56:48 — Final Advice for Entrepreneurs
 01:58:28 — Outro

#entrepreneurship #financialfreedom #wealthmindset #businessgrowth #mindset

Transcript

SPEAKER_58 0:00

I think when you look at some of the really fun stories, it probably from your own career, when you think back, it's like of some of the biggest and best decisions you made, you'll probably find more of them came from like a gut instinct versus like, yeah, I was in the spreadsheet and the spreadsheet told me this and I did it. This data driven decision is what made me here.

SPEAKER_25 0:18

My biggest failures in business were still data-driven decisions. Yes. When somebody invites me to do something and I don't want to do it, just to know. Just to know. And it doesn't have to be complicated. I simplify that. So I like to use that as a guiding principle. But then I wrote uh a book a couple years ago called How the Hell Are You Doing This? And it was the principles that I learned through military and business that allowed me to build success in my organizations and with my relationships. And I said chapter five. It's titled, If it's not fun, I'm going home. And that's kind of my litmus now for if I'm gonna continue to do something.

SPEAKER_58 0:52

And when all of a sudden you drive home with a Lamborghini or you open the garage and there's one there, it's really hard to move the goalposts. Like, well, I have like it just slaps you across the face. You're like, I'm in a Lamborghini. Yeah. Like this happened. And somehow, I think in a healthy way, in that situation, the version I'm telling that, that is really good for you.

SPEAKER_25 1:12

I often start these shows talking about a superpower and how awesome it is if we can harness and master that. But I'm here today with a special guest, Jess, and he was just sharing something that I think is a really important thought. A superpower that's overused becomes a weakness, perhaps a dependency and a vulnerability. Jess, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and why you think that.

SPEAKER_58 1:40

Well, I'm Jess Phillips. Um what I do, I'm an entrepreneur, definitely involved in a few different businesses. The main focus is freedom reserves, just a smart place to put capital, your cash reserves, higher yield, protect your capital, stay liquid. So that's that became pretty important to me after um an exit a couple years ago and got really focused on you know, working hard to make all this money, and now how do I make sure I keep it and have it work for me? So that's the main focus that I that I'm on right now.

SPEAKER_25 2:12

Can I ask about the exit? You said an exit a few years ago. Yeah. What was that?

SPEAKER_58 2:16

Um it was a smaller construction company called uh Temporary Power Services. And we actually purchased the company um about 10 years ago. And when we purchased it, it was doing about almost $300,000 in revenue, so really small. Been around for over 20 years. And uh the owner wanted to retire, so we bought it and slowly grew it over a few years. Um I was I served more of a board role, I would say. Sure. Uh wasn't there day to day. And um it's actually my old boss back in the day at Verizon that approached me about he'd seen some success that me and my other partner had, and said, hey, would you guys you know join in on this if I had this opportunity to buy a company? So we did. And and uh yeah, when we when we exited, we had grown it to over two million in in profit. And so it was, you know, quite a growth, but it was really steady for a few years, and then it really popped once we added a new new vertical. So it was really interesting. Like the original business didn't isn't even what really made it valuable. It was really just kind of having that creative um mindset to like see where the other opportunities are, even it was just with existing clients and more services that they they wanted us to bring to the table.

SPEAKER_25 3:32

So I like that you mentioned uh bringing a new vertical to existing clients. This is something that I talk about often with guests on the show. A lot of people say they have a lead problem. But when I get involved with businesses, a lot of times it's not actually a lead problem, it's a revenue leak problem. Yeah you're not doing something to optimize the lifetime value of the customers that you have existing. And so then it becomes this really cool equation or this problem set of how do we help you maximize that? And a lot of times, like you said, it's just a create a new creative solution, something new that we can offer in line with what they already need. And I'm a big believer in if you provide a product or service, there's probably something adjacent to that or another pain point that that product or service leads to that just becomes a natural ascension for you.

SPEAKER_58 4:20

Yeah, I think this is why it's really great what you do, the consulting side of things. I do some of that as well. And someone I'm consulting right now. It's really, I don't know what it is, but it's like when you're in it, right? That's why you bring on a consultant or a coach or a mentor, whatever you want to call it. It seems to be the lowest hanging fruit that I always seem to identify if I'm on the outside. When I'm in it, I I don't see it, I don't see the same thing. It happens to me too. This was an example of of that exact thing. Like this was something, you know, our operator, our main partner that I mentioned, you know, he was in the business, and then he was the one that kind of brought up, hey, you know, this is something we're getting approached about. And it took, you know, somebody more on the board level or a mentor to go, hey, that's where the focus should be. Let's go look at that, let's explore that. And it can be disguised, right? This was more of a seasonal opportunity. So I think it was always kind of like, uh, well, that only really that that new vertical only really kicks in in the winter. They need ground thought equipment, they need generators, they need, you know, temporary power and heating specifically in the winter. So I think it was always overlooked.

SPEAKER_25 5:21

Yeah, you think it's seasonal, so it maybe isn't worth the investment.

SPEAKER_58 5:24

Exactly. Oh, it's not all the time or whatever. Well, let's look into that further, and sure enough, we did, and that's what really took us, you know, to a place that we could we could really exit and then be happy about it. So I see that a lot. I see that being a huge opportunity. I think when you're in the business, you're just so focused on that cycle of a new customer. This is what we offer. And it's a lot just to execute that, as we all know. I think sometimes having some outside help to help see a few of those other opportunities. That's that's been my experience. That it usually comes from somebody on the outside kind of like raising their hands saying, Hey, are you definitely looking at this?

SPEAKER_25 5:58

So tell us a little bit about the backstory here. You said that uh previous boss from Verizon reached out to you because of your success. What maybe led you into this position where you could buy a business? Um, what what were you doing before that? How did you get there?

SPEAKER_58 6:13

Yeah, um, we had all started. There was a there was three of us, and we started at Verizon Corporate, and uh I was in sales and my business partner was a big operator there. He'd been in charge of 5,000 employees. So when I met him and he approached me about starting a company, I was like, hey, this guy's dumb enough to start a company with me. I'm I'm in, right? This guy all the success and experience and was just an incredible operator. So the the thing that I definitely took away was whatever we produced, whatever we sold, I knew he would make sure it got it got fulfilled. Okay. So that made me really excited. That was, you know, the salesperson in me. I think um the Achilles heel of the best salesperson is bad operations, right? So um as long as you have integrity, right? Like if you if you're willing to just sell and say anything, it doesn't really matter. But I think, you know, we've had experiences in my life, I think most people have, where you're you're able to sell something, actually get momentum, and the miracle of the sale occurs, and then you outsell your operations, and then that just cripples you, right? It's just hard to continue to go into a home or do a business and continue to tell them about this great product if it doesn't actually come to fruition.

SPEAKER_25 7:22

So I talk a lot about a concept called the Rainmaker Triad that was taught to me by one of my coaches, Mandy Keene. And she explains it's similar to like the business triumvirate, if you're familiar with that, that every Uber successful organization has three key players in it. You have the Rainmaker, who's maybe this charismatic individual. They go out, they get the sales, they drive the revenue. Then they typically have an engineer, someone who works the system, the back end, the fulfillment, make sure that things are operating in an efficient manner. It sounds like this uh original partnership. You're the rainmaker, he's the engineer. And then uh the third would be a creator, a creative, somebody who makes the product and the service very beautiful, well packaged, desirable, and palatable to the the audience and the customers. Would you say that when you went into this partnership then, that you uh were kind of fulfilling those roles? I mean, you covered each other's weaknesses then pretty well.

SPEAKER_58 8:19

Absolutely. Yeah, people always comp commented that we made made a great team. So we we started a company in 2010 um out of a garage and in the home improvement space. You know, I think our goal was let's be successful enough to quit our jobs um to you know be able to take maybe some Fridays off and a vacation or two when we want to. That was like kind of the ceiling, I think we were all looking at. And uh we grew that specific company, I get, you know, a couple different ways you could quantify it. We had 260 employees at our peak. Oh wow in four states. Um and you know, usually we're at around 50 million in revenue per year. That's awesome. So Inc. 500, like four times in a row for fastest growing and entrepreneur of the year finalist and 40 under 40 and all those different things. So lots of fun there and lots of lots of stress, lots of all the other things that that come with that. So yeah, we were in the middle of growing that company when my original boss back from Verizon watched the two of us leave Verizon and go start, go start this other company and have some success. So he said, Hey, would you guys, you know, help me purchase this company and basically be on my board and help me help me grow this thing? So that it was awesome because it created other opportunities, right? When you're having success like that. And um, you know, he he gave us a great option to come in and and uh help him get that started. So it worked really well. Um, it was fun because the last couple years of that smaller construction company, uh, it was you know taking off, it was doing well. I kind of was like, hey, I think it's time that you should buy us out. You should buy, you know, the main operator. I told Chris is his name. You should buy us out at this point. Not that like we needed the money right then or anything. It was more out of like, hey, out of honor for you, you're the main person running this. You should buy us out now because it's it's it's really gross. Yeah, we're just gonna keep going up. Yeah, it's about to, you know, in a year or two, you're gonna cash out. You should buy us out now because that's the right thing. And you know, how awesome he is. He's just like, no, like I'm gonna, you're gonna come and finish this off with me. You're gonna, you're gonna get what you deserve. And it's well, you know, and he reminded me of all the things we had done early on when it was small, and you know, we'd share office space or you know, do some rent rent free months of rent and different things like that. So it's awesome to have partners like that. It's really hard to find those, how you see people behave when lowest lows and highest highs, and can definitely count on one hand how many of those guys I have in my life. But when you have partners like that, you go through those different things. I mean, those are the type of people you're looking to be in partnership with, and I value that more than anything else now. More than the opportunity, more the money, more than anything else. It's who are they? Can I trust them? Am I gonna have fun with them?

SPEAKER_25 10:58

So I've talked a few times on the show about the concept of the who versus the what. And a lot of times your growth is just a partnership away from being uber successful. Would you say, or I guess what advice would you have for somebody if they're starting a business, how do they find the right partner? Yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_58 11:19

I think if you if you can find a way to obviously the interview is great, but I think it's more important to interview other people that have worked for them, worked with them, worked around them. And to me, if you can find a way, and it's not it's not always possible, but if you can find a way to find out how did this person behave, like my existing partner right now on Freedom Reserves, I was around him when we had a finance company together and it was going well, and then it slowed down, like most businesses do, they go through ups and downs. Yep. And there was a moment where it was like, hey, we want to keep the company going, we probably need to take out home equity lines from our houses. Like it was at that place, right? That's a pretty serious place, it's a pretty big decision, and we're all looking around the competition table going, Do you have any equity? Do you have any equity? So I gotta see how he behaved, treated me, treated the business, treated himself, all the employees when it was not doing well. And then I gotta see, you know, how he behaved when you know the company's you know doing 2.7 billion during the total life of the company and got to see how he behaved through that success, and it was the same person. So that's huge for me because now I know no matter what we go through business, you know, consistent, dependable. Are we gonna close this down? Are we gonna put it all on the table and do it and go ahead and go forward? And then how do they actually behave when all the money shows up? Because it's interesting, some people behave differently in um different circumstances. So usually how they behave in the the bad times is also how they might behave in the very great times, like and you want to have some some major trust in both those situations. So if you can find a way to find out how they've behaved in those two scenarios from people they've worked around, or if you have your own experience, like that's really what I look at now.

SPEAKER_25 13:05

Okay, so I'm I'm curious too about your maybe background before you got into entrepreneurship a little bit, because you said um Guy Verizon, if he's crazy enough to take a chance on you, like you're in, you're going in. So you already had a very high level of trust in him, yeah, but also probably in yourself that you were willing to jump the corporate ship and go into business for yourself. What maybe led you to having that mentality or that willingness, that confidence in yourself to do that?

SPEAKER_58 13:36

Well, it's interesting because before I had the confidence, I didn't. I I really lost it. Um, you know, I think we all go through ups and downs in life and get get the legs taken out from underneath us and think we're doing great. Usually it comes when you're younger and a little more arrogant and uh overvalue your success. And so I I had a story like many when the economy crashed, it hit me pretty hard. But I was I was young. I had just gotten married and new baby and started my first real business, a kiosk in the mall, a teeth whitening kiosk. Right on. First month it made three grand in profit. So I was looking at Lamborghinis and Ferraris, and you know, you if you remember when you're 23, brand new married, you're like, hey, $3,000 for me at 23. I thought I was on top of the world. Absolutely. So did I. So um, and it was the first month. So it's like, okay, what are we gonna do next month? And then within a couple months, the you know, the economy crashed. And to be honest, I remember thinking, like, what does that word economy really even mean? Like, why are all the adults so scared? Like they're really nervous right now. And so, you know, that hit me pretty hard um because I didn't have an education or anything to fall back on. So um I went to to work, got a job in corporate America. That's what everybody told me to do. So it was good for me to go work at a big company um like Verizon. And um, I was super hungry. Like I was blown away that I was in an air-conditioned building where people were waiting to buy something from me. So I just went crazy. Like I didn't, I remember I got called into the office by the manager, and um, you know, I'm used to a sales world where they're like praising you for working hard, working extra hours, not taking lunches. And then he was like, Hey, you're you know, you know, your numbers are incredible. Like I was like one of the best in the whole country. It was just because I was so hungry to make money and catch up, pay the bills for the family, right? So I'm thinking he's congratulating me, which he started that way, but then he's like, No, I'm I'm also like riding you up because you're not taking lunches. You're not, you're like, you don't even take bathroom breaks. Cause I thought he was praising me for that. Like, hey, you're not taking lunches. I need you to do this. You know, I'm like, no, you don't really want me to take a lunch, right? There's people waiting to buy. And so that was my first experience with HR and getting rid up for like not taking a lunch.

SPEAKER_25 15:50

How much how dare you work too much?

SPEAKER_58 15:52

Yeah. So, you know, corporate America was good for me to take the rough edges off of me a little bit, learn some of that. Sure. Definitely prepared me for, you know, having a business, a bigger company with lots of employees. I think from an HR standpoint, it was really good for me to learn some of those lessons, right? And how to behave in those situations. But yeah, I think um I regained my confidence by going into a sales field like that and where everything's very measured, and there's thousands of sales reps across the country, and I got to see my numbers kind of stack up against other salespeople. And that helped restore a lot of confidence because I remember before that I had gotten so low thinking I had failed a business, right? And and thinking like, I remember I was like, I'm gonna be a school teacher, like that's the solution, which there's nothing against being a school teacher, but for someone who's an entrepreneur-mindset person, like I would have been playing small for for me, right? Because my mindset wasn't about what normal, I think, school teachers are motivated by. To me, it was that'll be really safe. I'll get a salary, they'll have benefits. Like I can, you know, the summers are off. Yeah, my family will be taken care of. Exactly. And so to me, it was that was all small thinking. That was playing scared. And that's how low I was just before that. And then was able to go, you know, just go and actually have to hustle, right? Be forced to hustle hard. And you know, some of those numbers started to add up, and you start to see it, and you're like, maybe I am actually good at communicating, selling, you know, these things. So that helped my get get my confidence back up. And then having an operator like like Trent, you know, he was the one that was in charge of 5,000 employees at Verizon and approached me about, hey, let's you want to start a company with me. Yeah, climb the corporate ladder. Uh so for me, I was like, I'm gonna climb the climb the corporate ladder as well. And then he's like, Hey, I've done it. I'm already up here 10 years of my life. He was up there and he's like, I'm I'm leaving. So I'm like, well, maybe I don't want to climb the ladder.

SPEAKER_21 17:48

Yeah, if he's willing to jump ship after achieving that, and maybe make you consider that my 30s and he was already there.

SPEAKER_58 17:53

I'm like, geez, maybe I'll skip that's that part of my life and follow him. So it was humbling that he approached me about like starting a business with him. I think that gave me some confidence as well. And then when you have a partner that you have that much confidence in, it just helps you be that much more confident. Oh, absolutely. So I think one of the other, you know, things that that I'm good at is I really see the the value that other people bring and I know how to like broadcast that and communicate that to the clients.

SPEAKER_25 18:20

Let me ask so freedom reserves. Yeah. Very different business than construction and home improvement, and very different than Verizon. Yeah. You mentioned that you you kind of got into that because you wanted to preserve the wealth that you already had, but how did you maybe learn about the need for that service? Like what drove that into your mind as like this is something that one, I need for me, two, the community at large needs, and you could create a business that would provide that.

SPEAKER_58 18:52

Yeah, and we had the exit in 2023. Um, you know, it was it was a great chunk of money. Some people might be like, oh, that was nothing, or some people might be like, that's incredible. I'm done for life. To me, it was it was enough to like, you know, not not worry about my paycheck next week, but not enough to just sail away into the sunset, right? Forever. Sure. So I felt like, gosh, there's so much I've done to get to this point. Finally have a chunk of money, like I want to be really responsible with it. And so I just got I had time on my hands for the first time where it wasn't like a million different things going on with a million different companies or whatever. And sure. And so I got really focused on like how do I make this money really work for me? I'm finally on the right side of interest, like you we all want to be. We're told like that's the where you want to be. And so, how do I do this? How do I make this really go to work for me in a smart way? So um, that's where I got focused in after a couple of years of exploring different things. I think there was a couple different emotions that came up. One, there's new doors opened up when you have a certain net worth, or you know, obviously there's a credit investors, and then there's your net worth and things, and there's some investments that open up to you that like you don't get without a certain amount of money. And I thought that was interesting because part of me was excited, like, oh, I'm in the club, right? Like I can I can get access to some of this stuff. And part of me was really frustrated because it was like, geez, the people that need these type of instruments, these type of investment opportunities are you know, people that they could use them a little earlier in the in their career, I think. And so I kind of got on this quest of like let's figure out a how would we want to design investments that would work for me, would work for me as an entrepreneur, specifically when I was running a business and you have some cash reserves and you don't want to lock them up or invest them long term, yeah, but you still want to make some sort of meaningful interest on it that can they can contribute to the to the company and to where you're headed.

SPEAKER_25 20:49

That's awesome. I I think that this is an area, especially where a lot of entrepreneurs don't necessarily go through a traditional education. They don't they don't work in um you know a business school, they don't get the financial piece, they learn it on the fly as they go, but then you inherently will have these knowledge gaps where you're not thinking about all those things. So I mean that was something that I I had to learn it on the go. Um, because I started my business while I was still doing my undergrad. I didn't have uh a family background. I mean, we were we were very poor growing up, so I joined the army as like my escape from poverty. Sure. And then like 23 years old, I'm making 30 grand a year and I think I'm a king. Totally. Uh you know, really, really funny in hindsight. Um, but then I'm starting a business. I'm trying to learn those. I was at least I was going to UVU, so I was getting some exposure, but it was, you know, over the course of four years, not immediate when I needed it.

SPEAKER_35 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 21:56

I'm just thinking that that's a very valuable service. And not just um as as a resource to say, hey, I need help with this and push it off, but to also say, like you're working with somebody that you're learning from as you go. You're starting to understand a little bit more of how finances and investing and all of that works accumulatively across the board.

SPEAKER_58 22:20

Yeah, some things that why that even happened for me, because I totally relate to no education. That was not my background. My dad was a mailman. Um, it's kind of funny. He actually delivered mail to our own house. So he'd stop and have his lunch break when he delivered mail for a lot some of his career. And my mom would work part-time as the food critic for like the Desert News Standard Examiner and stuff like that. Oh, that's cool. So the times we would get to go out to eat would be like we get a free meal at like some new restaurant that opens so she could do a story on it, right? So so yeah, I relate to a lot of what you said there. Um so I think where I started to learn the money side of things, two opportunities. One was when we had the home improvement company, uh, local billionaire in Utah was one of our clients for like six years. So I was in his office every couple weeks or around him or on his jet sometimes. Um, I remember the first time he invited, like, oh, let's go down to Arizona. I'm on this thing, and like, well, it's tomorrow. I'm like, you know, my brain's like, I gotta buy a plane tank. He's like, oh, just jump on the jet with me. You know, so it's kind of interesting to see how a billionaire does business a little differently.

SPEAKER_61 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 23:27

Um, both from like jump on a jet, but also more how their brain works with money, you know, and it was incredible to see the way he looked at capital and as just like a resource versus like something to I would constantly stress about, right? And it just I had a scarcity mindset around it for sure. So I think I think being mentored by a billionaire for about six years was a pretty important thing for me in my career. That's a unique opportunity. I think that's the thing I'd brag about all day, is like somehow I've been able to get around some incredible people that I've learned from. So the other one was my business partner on the a finance company we started along the way with with being in solar, that was our home improvement company. You know, we did uh real Salt Lakes uh solar system, Adobe here in Utah, um, and a ton of other commercial buildings, and we were in four states for residential as well. Um, but we needed a way for people to pay for it. I remember the first lesson somebody taught me. We hired a coach when we were brand new in solar, and I mean, nobody was doing solar in 2010. And so he told us, look, I'm gonna teach you a bunch of stuff about it. But the only thing that really matters is if you can't show them how to pay for it, nothing else matters. Yeah. I think that's the case for a lot of things, especially higher ticket stuff. And so we needed financing. So we're famous for creating the first solar loan in the nation. So our finance company um was never the biggest, but it, you know, 3 billion actually doesn't make it pretty small for that industry. Oh, that's crazy to think about. Yeah. So well, I mean, I guess you got sunrun down the road, yeah. Yeah, but we were, you know, did create the first one that was an actual loan. And so um, so being on the board of that company just as a co-founder and and you know, again, I had a partner that ran that one focused, and that's who my partner is today on Freedom Reserves. But, you know, his background was in wealth management before that. And then he was a he was the CEO of that finance company for you know 12 or 13 years. So um we kind of got the band back together and uh did Freedom Reserves, and that's who I learned a lot from as well. Somebody that's got the formal education, someone who's built multiple companies in that industry in finance and um, you know, real estate investing, all of it. So um it's great to, I'm just a big believer in having having great partners, and it really just brings out you know, your superpowers and they have some that usually compliment compliment the superpowers you have.

SPEAKER_25 25:58

I love that. You you talked about the mentorship piece, and that's something that I say often is if I could go back and do it again, I would find and latch on to mentors quicker, faster. I would invest in myself and in those that those relationships more. I I was very guilty of I had a small office in a warehouse, and uh like I would literally just sit there, I'd stay in the office till like 7, 8 p.m. at night to like make phone calls to manufacturers and distributors and things like that. Like and I would just tunnel vision on the work. And I didn't realize, and it's so dumb in hindsight. Like, I should have just seen if I would have just asked for help or reached out to some people that maybe I had known previously, hey, what did you do in this situation? Or how did you overcome XYZ or have you ever struggled with this before? Like, you could ask those questions and shortcut the learning experience. Um yeah. But I I fixated on it and it was such a pain point for me. If I could have gone back, if I could go get mentors earlier, faster, invest in that, that would have, I think, shortcutted my my uh pains exponentially. Uh I also I really like how you I mean, you're talking about getting on a jet with a billionaire, and he's maybe the initial exposure to how someone with wealth is actually thinking about using leveraging money. Holy smokes. I mean, the I think that that's a testament to the the relationship being maximally valuable. If we can go find mentors and partners who are already doing what we want to do, who already have the experience or who have succeeded in that realm that we want to aspire to be like, that's probably where the most valuable relationships are. I mean, coaches these days are a dime a dozen, right? You find them uh on every every corner in business. But the reality is the vast majority of them never built anything of value. And so I always just recommend like if you if you want to achieve something, find somebody who's already achieved that, go learn from them.

SPEAKER_58 28:02

Yeah, I think you know, I do some coaching now. I try to just keep a couple clients at a time. I want to keep it in the fun zone. And uh, I like that the fun zone. That's where it's fun for me. It's like fantasy football. Like once you have more than two teams, you ruin it. So that's the way I look at it. Um and I I just I got I uh I've been asked, like, yeah, what what would you do differently going back? And usually the first answer is what you said. It's the same thing. Like, I never had a coach, I never had a consultant. I had great partners that always had great experience around me. But so I did get I did get mentorship there, but never a formal or even informal like mentor. And I just didn't know the value of that. I think part of it that my excuse was I was in a new industry. So the excuse I made was, and I think a lot of people can relate to this, was well, they won't know my business, they won't understand my business. And you know, both of us I know sit here and laugh about that. Now it's like it doesn't matter what the product is or the business, it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_25 29:02

Yeah, you you just have to identify what the route is that you need help with.

SPEAKER_58 29:05

Yeah, like is it sales, is it offers, is it yeah, you know, I think I just told myself, well, it's solar, no one's done this. It's you know, this was before everybody was, you know, doing it. This was 2010, we started, like nobody was doing it. You know, in Utah that we were the second company, third company here, and by 2016 there was 120 companies. So wow. So I think I always thought, well, when I talk to people, they don't really understand my business. And like 95% of it does not matter what your product is.

SPEAKER_21 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 29:33

If you have the right mentor, it's the system is the same, it applies to all of it. So so I think because at the end of the day, a good coach or mentor is just gonna help ask you the right questions, maybe point out a few things that maybe you're not seeing. And that it's all within you at that point. Like you really do have most of the answers within you. You just need somebody to help extract those from you.

SPEAKER_25 29:53

I love that. It's it's kind of funny. Someone was telling me um that regardless of how we actually view our coaching, it's 95% cheerleading because they have the answer already. They just aren't seeing it. Or they're fixating on one aspect of the problem and not looking at the holistic picture, and they just need that third-party perspective, maybe, to say, hey, look, you're missing this piece of information, but it's right here, you can see it. And they just got to go get it, merge the two worlds, and they have their solution, they can move on. But it's just helping somebody understand how to work through a problem that maybe they're not familiar with. I got my first coach. So I started my first business in 2016. I got my first coach, I think, in maybe 2020. It was COVID happened, I had a little bit of extra disposable income. And I think I invested in uh Tanner Chidster's uh elite CEO's program, and that was my first foray into coaching. Uh since then, I got into Akbar Sheikh's um program. And uh in 2024, I joined Russell Brunson's inner circle. And each one of those programs, it's kind of like the step up the coaching ladder to like the higher level, maybe mentor, unlocked something new for me with my business. Where maybe Tanner's uh initial initially helped me structure a little bit of a more refined offer set for myself that I could uh present in a cleaner way. So he helped me tidy up. And then Akbar helps me see, hey, dude, you've got these whole other opportunities that you're you have a background in, you know, military leadership that you're you're an expert on, and you're just underselling yourself. Let's let's work on your positioning. And that opened up a whole bunch of new doorways for me. Then I get into Russell's world and it's dude, you're you're not charging nearly enough. You need to be working with these corporate partners, like, but it just took a I always had those abilities, right? Nothing inherently changed about me. I I I had the undergrad, I had the MBA, I had the leadership experience, I had the the business already built behind me. I just needed a different coach at each one of those points to maybe show me what was possible. So I'm a I'm a big believer, and if you can find that coach, that mentor, yeah, invest in that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean it just sets you up for success. So okay, freedom reserves. I also understand. Oh, sorry, man. So many thoughts. You you had a lot of good stuff set up. Yeah. How do you get into those circles with those mentors? We're both in supercar communities now. Yeah. That was a huge one for me to elevate my mindset. So I bought my first uh supercar. It was a 2016 Porsche GT3RS. I got it back in 2020. And then on I went to Cars and Coffee the next Saturday. Nine-day experience. Previously, I was just now whatever, some dude with his Ford Focus ST. And then you show up with uh the GT3RS. And back then nobody had those out here. All of a sudden, everyone wanted to talk to me at Cars and Coffee. Everyone wanted to know who I was and what I did and how I did it, and if I could teach them or help them or coach them. I'm like, okay, there's something to this. It's not just a car. This is a vehicle for networking and relationship building. Yeah. And now we get into groups like Fast Lane Drive and and Club Paddock, where you have this awesome network of business owners, high-level sales guys, entrepreneurs, and and all of them has a different experience, a different maybe selection of knowledge that they've learned or that they've worked through. And I think if you get into a group like that, the networking opportunities and the amount of information that you can just learn by being in proximity to these people, like being in proximity to the billionaire on the jet, right, that can be life-changing. So I'm I I mean, I'm even a big believer in get the dream car, go join those groups because the deals that come after that and the relationships that you build, they're out of this world. They pay for themselves. I mean, that's my experience.

SPEAKER_58 34:02

What have you had in that world? Yeah, I I relate to a lot of what you said. I think, you know, I got an exotic carb first because I something I wanted from me. And I think that was important for me to do it. I think my brain sometimes in the past might have done things to skip steps or look a certain way. And I think um, you know, I wanted to make sure the foundational reason was like this is something I want to enjoy. And it and it really was. I think there's something I I think I a lot of my fiance, I've had to try to explain it to her. And I'm like, I think a lot of the car thing, what it is, is at some point as a little boy, we like saw some really amazing car, and there was something about that's our dream. And so when we have the opportunity to finally live that dream, I think we're entrepreneurs, we're really good at moving the goalposts on ourselves in an unhealthy way. Oh, I agree. And when all of a sudden you drive home with a Lamborghini or you open the garage and there's one there, it's really hard to move the goalposts and be like, well, I have like it just slaps you across the face. You're like, I'm in a Lamborghini. Yeah. Like this happened. And somehow, I think in a healthy way, in that situation, the version I'm telling that, that is really good for you. It's like it really is validating. Like you did something really hard. Something as a child, teenager, you thought would be like incredible. Panical. Yep. Because I think we do things like like we look at if I can just own a home and build a family, wow. And you do it, and then you're just like, cool, that's great, move on. And so I think it it stops you, it stops you and makes you smell the roses a little bit and go, like, hey, I did something that I thought very few people can do. And it helps you really validate yourself in a healthy way. That's what it did for me. Um, it was undeniable. Like, dude, this is a real, this is really cool. This is a real thing. Yeah. I also like joke that I and it's it's true, like I was a big car person as a teenager, and um I always joke that like I promise God, if like I got a really cool car that I would share it with everybody. Because like I felt like all my friends would like have random strippers pick them up and give them rides and they didn't even know what the cars were. And I'm like, why doesn't this happen to me? So if I get a cool car, I'm gonna share it with everybody. So I love it. I've had some of those experiences. Like I had one the other day where like this probably six or seven-year-old just comes like running up to the car as soon as I park it, and like he's with his dad. I mean, I'm like, Yeah, you can go ahead and send it. And I like he was about to start crying, like he was emotional about it. So it kind of threw me off a little bit, like you said, where I was like, gosh, I better have some good answers to all these questions because apparently they are this could be their moment right now, like that inspires them. So the car thing's interesting to me. I think it's um a little unfair. I think it's a little bit like uh you almost get too much trust by driving, you know, having a cool car, exotic car. I think there's plenty of people, like anything that abuse it, maybe stretch themselves to buy one and just so they just for the pure like, oh, then I can network or whatever. I think I think it does drop down to your point. Like, I think it does help some of those barriers for some people that are successful. Like, okay, yeah, I can trust, for example, I can trust you with my money because I can tell you've made some money and you're you at least have paid some sort of level of sacrifice. Like I have you paid a similar price that I have. So I relate to that. So I really love the communities that um, you know, I surprised how many great people have had success and are in the exotic car world. Um, I think we all on the outside are a little jealous and are like, oh, they're probably all jerks. And then you get in there and actually realize that a lot of them none of them are jerks. Like there's at least the the groups I'm around, like really cool people that that have like mine and just want to give back and have paid the price for their success for sure, and and uh have the wounds and and and the humility around it, and uh they're just trying to most of them are just fulfilling that childhood dream as well. And and so I think I agree, like I think there's some really cool um side benefits that have come from that of like it's definitely opened some new doors and some great conversations and um it's been really fun for me.

SPEAKER_25 38:10

Okay couple points awesome inspiring others and giving back. That is hands down the best part of supercar ownership for me. We we uh you know just last week with Fast Lane, we went and did that make a wish. Yeah. Awesome experience. Um tomorrow, I'll post it in Fastlane again right after this, actually. Tomorrow we're going to do a kid's birthday party. So, like me and Jod and Braden gonna go drive down. I'm gonna have my my Bart's gonna take one of my Lambos, I'm gonna have my VA take another one of the Lambos, we're gonna just take a bunch of cars down to Riverside Park for this kid's like sixth birthday. Like she's gonna be blown away. Just to blow them away. Uh but that stuff is awesome because, like you said, you never know if that's what's that's the moment that's gonna inspire this kid or help them understand what is or isn't possible in the world and maybe they can achieve more than they thought they could achieve.

SPEAKER_58 39:03

Yeah, I wanna I I saw this post, and it was somebody that got a Lamborghini and they were talking to a friend, like, I'm not gonna post about this. And I'm not a big social media poster myself, so I'm not for better or worse, like I just I'm not, but and um but but he was saying, like, I don't think I'm gonna post about me getting my first exotic car. And the guy's like, People are some people are just in the wrong time timeline on seeing your success. But most of us, there's life is hard enough as it is. Yeah, most of us are looking for inspiration, especially from somebody we actually maybe grew up with or somebody we know or someone we can relate to. I think there's so much, ooh, look at the success that some distant person has that. I mean, social media is just definitely full of like the best version of everybody's lives, right? Or even the fake version of their lives. But it's like, hey, I went to high school with that guy. Like, I grew up with that same person, and they're having some level of success that's inspiring inspiring to use to most people. Yeah. I've had plenty of people, this weird, awkward moment of like they see my car or whatever, and it's just weird. Like they're just kind of quiet. And it's like, even if just seeing a Lamborghini or something, right? You should you normally just get a little excited or you're seeing one, but like you're like really reserved. It's like there's something going on for them, but it really doesn't have a lot to do with you. It just might be bad timing for them. They might be in some situation where they're not believing in themselves or they, you know, are jealous, whatever it is, like you don't have to take that personal. There's definitely been some weird moments like that have been in interesting. And then it's really cool to see some people that are just so excited and inspired. Absolutely. And I think it's not up to us to, you know, decide for them, like just give the opportunity for people to be inspired. And if it if it works for them and they want to try that on and it's positive for them, great. If if it's not, it just usually says more about where they're at and their timeline and their process.

SPEAKER_25 40:53

Absolutely. Uh, you also brought up how superbar or supercar, super bar, supercar. Supercar owners are often a lot more relatable and they want to give back in a lot of situations. You know, I lost all of my, I shouldn't say all of my, I lost a lot of my friends when I went into entrepreneurship because they just couldn't relate anymore. And instead of taking Fridays off and going snowboarding or going out late on the weekends, I was just in the lab, locked in, trying to grow this business and find a way to provide for my family. So I lost those relationships. And getting into the supercar community a little bit allowed me to make friends with people that could understand that struggle. Like you said, maybe there's that level of uh they you they understand because they went through it too. Like a common humanity. Yeah. Uh and not only, you know, make friends with these awesome people who could relate then too, but everyone wants to help you succeed. I I mean, like uh I I work with uh Dave Reichert now, right? And that dude just wants to see people have financial success. And I I, you know, really admire like Raul guy gets I I I was doing a mastermind event a couple months back, and he's like, Yeah, uh come up at Fast Lane, we're gonna have you get in front of everybody, just you know, pitch your event, uh let them all know that you're doing this. Like, we want to help you eat too. I'm like, how cool is that? These guys all just want to look out for each other and they want to help you. And you know, I so a lot of my my closest friends now came from getting into those communities and those circles where people just want to help each other grow. That's that's invaluable to me. So I love that. And I I loved um when when you said, hey, yeah, I'll come, I'll come do the podcast. I start looking into okay, who's Jess? Well, I don't I I don't really know him, but let's let's uh do the look. And I saw you're involved at Club Paddock, and I'm like, that's one of my favorite places in the world, man. Yeah. I love the events, I love the people. Like Hondo's somebody that I I really, really look up to. Um I've told him, I said, look, I'm not trying to kiss your ass or anything like that, but when I I look at the grand scheme of people who have achieved a high level of success and you know what what you've been able to accomplish in your life, that's that's something that I want to learn from. I want to be in proximity to you so I can learn from you.

SPEAKER_58 43:17

Yeah, I'm a big fan of paddock enough that uh I had an opportunity he approached about you know investing in the expansion. So that's how much I love it. Um can you give us any updates on that? It's like uh it's like yeah, uh um they finally got permitting, which was what we were waiting on. And so there's gonna be like a red light bed and massage chairs. That's awesome speakeasy, like secret door into this poker table, and you can have 20 of your friends in there and um you know, have the game on, whatever you want, a couple more conference rooms. Um very cool. I'll already have the golf sim in the kitchen, and we've done date nights, like group date nights there on like Friday night. And just have our friends come there and hang out. So love Club Paddock. Um, huge fan. And uh, you know, I think Paddock is a really good example of you attract who you are. And it starts with Hondo, the founder, and he's just attracted to people like like himself, right? People that want to give back, people that have paid the price for success. Um and uh one of the things I love about when you start to get some momentum is you can really just it can really build on itself. If you've got the right core principles down, maybe going back to the coaching mentor thing, sometimes you don't even realize what you have going for you until you have someone that says, like, that's that's amazing, right there. Keep doubling down on that. That's your superpower. Do that. And and so what I like, for example, the doors that open up as you start to get momentum. I think when you're starting out, it's so hard, right? There's so many things up against you. But it's like that compound effect that's like the water pump. You're just you know pumping the water and it you don't see anything coming out, and then eventually it just starts flowing, right? So, for example, like we we were able to build a house in Costa Rica that we were gonna take Hondo and and his wife, and we all get along really well, and a couple other awesome couples, and we're gonna have a great time. But just again, like I'm sure residual effect will be some cool ideas or business opportunities or whatever that comes from that. Yeah, you kind of get a mastermind going in there. Yeah, it's like I just thought of that right now while we're sitting here. Like, I'm today I was thinking about all the fun stuff we're gonna do. I'm like, we're probably gonna have these great conversations or more opportunities. So that's what I found is like you can start getting momentum and you can start, you know, get over the hump. You it's amazing. Like it won't always be that hard. Yeah. It won't always be, you know, the grind's like, gosh, I finally got a customer. My gosh, that took like six months or whatever it is. Like it won't, it won't always be that hard. The compound effect will kick in, and eventually you'll have that spill over, and then it will just flow.

SPEAKER_25 45:57

I like the uh you talked about how it compounds over time. I'm a big believer in just simplifying the process. You you gave the example of like you're pumping, yeah, then the water comes. Simplify your process, let it compound with action over time. And in this kind of situation, it's just network, talk to people, build relationships, partnerships.

SPEAKER_58 46:19

Yeah, I feel like you know, part of my story is the big company, the biggest company I had from a revenue and um that I was running myself as a CEO. You know, at our peak was, like I said, 260 employees. It didn't end how I wanted it to. COVID happened and essentially like took us out, right? It it did get sold off and but it didn't leave leave me in a good financial spot. And then eventually, you know, I had to rebuild myself in every way and uh emotionally, spiritually, everything ended up getting divorced and and uh you know, so even relationship-wise, it really took a toll on me, but it was the best thing that happened to me was going through that process, and you know, that as you as you as I rebuilt with a stronger foundation, you know, now I think I can really um I I feel like I had a lot of success in one way, which was just like really just grinding it out and and uh you know maybe just working harder, not smarter, type of stuff without a mentor, without a coach. And then I feel like the second round where I had to really find out who I was, what my superpowers were, and be a little smarter, a little more strategic about how I did it. Um and then be motivated by the right things, because I think I went through the I think I went through the process of like on paper I had all the success you could hope for. You know, from financial to to just like being recognized. Um it was just my identity, you know, that's who people knew me as. But it was I think at the end of the day, like I I knew I wasn't really happy. And it almost created more shame and guilt because like I did the thing, I got here. I have the money and the cars and salary and the business and like not really happy. So the only other thing to do is like keep chasing more, but that didn't feel right either. So I'm really grateful that I went through that process to start over and and to uh realign with like how to have success, but do it in a way that's like healthy. Adds to my life and uh doesn't take doesn't take me and my relationships out.

SPEAKER_25 48:39

I'm curious, a couple things that I want to talk about. Um, but you mentioned the resiliency piece. And I think a lot of it's easy for somebody who's maybe in entrepreneurship, business ownership to really down on yourself because you're in that position where the responsibility all actually ultimately let rests with you. The ownership rests with you. Yeah. Um what what were your maybe you talked about rebuilding yourself. What were your tips or what what would helped you be successful in overcoming that that period of your life and building yourself back into a position where you could continue to grow and succeed?

SPEAKER_58 49:19

Um, I think that you know, honesty at the end of the day was the most important thing. Like just getting 90% honest was but not 100% would really hold me back. Like, what's you know, where am I really at? Like just some of the bad habits you learn over time and just being so worried about what other people think about you, and like really understanding what that actually means. Finally letting it aside, let other people see where you're really at. Um and yeah, I think I think just the honesty, like, what are my values? Who am I really? So I don't think I really knew who I was. I think I was always working for to please somebody else my whole life. Gotcha. So I think going through that process, doing a ton of therapy, books, all that stuff. Um one of the things I uncovered was childhood stuff, right? Where I was so motivated. I think most men can relate to like the drive it's instinctual to provide. I think that's good and healthy, and we have that. I think mine was supercharged and unhealthy to the point of unhealthy, being unhealthy um way of being driven, because you know, at a young age, I remember my mom just being so stressed about money, and and I could, she would talk to herself driving in the car. And I forgot about this whole experience until I was, you know, in some therapeutic session with other guys, and we're going through this process called the family sculpt. And I'm like, gosh, this is what I remember. My mom driving the car, just being talking to herself, being stressed about money. My dad's working graveyards. I'm the oldest kid, probably five or six years old, going to daycare. Yeah. Um, three younger siblings. And I remember this daycare was like pretty sketchy, pretty dangerous. Like, I just remember there's this other kid named Jessup that would bite kids. And I was like so worried. Like, my goal was to try to keep me and my siblings safe one more day without getting bitten by Jessup. So, um, and whatever else would come. But it was it was scary. Like, I you could almost tell my mom was even a little nervous to drop us off, and that's when I knew like it's not not the best place to go. So I didn't know what money was, but I just knew if we had it, everything would be okay. Like my mom needed more money so that we wouldn't have to go to this sketchy daycare, so she wouldn't have to work as much, so my dad wouldn't have to work at night. So if I could figure out how to get this money thing solved, I'll get loved and I'll receive happiness and everything will be good. So I think at a young age, like I was like, I gotta figure out how to do that thing. So, you know, I remember my mom would take me to the grocery outlet and we'd buy candy, and like I'd have a candy store. Like that was my first little entrepreneurial experience, right? At like six or something, like just selling candy bars, right? And I usually would probably eat most of the profits like most kids would, but that was my first experience. But just always having like a job at a young age, newspaper route, then working at Lagoon at 15, stuff like that. So I've always been driven that way, but I think it was at an unhealthy level because of you know, childhood experience being so driven. Like I'll receive everything I need, and my life will be great if I make enough money. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. I think society helps push that narrative. I think uh a healthy instinct in men is to provide, but I think we we get really overly focused on that. And that's what happened to me, at least. I was overly focused on that. And so when I did start, when I had made the money and had all the things, yeah, I was sitting there going, what's wrong? I thought if I got here, everything'd be great. So I think the best thing that happened to me was I lost basically all of it. And I was borderline bankrupt in every way. And so rebuilding from that was the best thing that happened for me.

SPEAKER_25 52:49

That's curious. I, you know, I think a similar hunger perhaps. Uh, you know, we grew up very poor. Um we we lived in the first subdivision in Eagle Mountain, uh city center. It was, you know, that 35 houses or whatever, and it was still Lehigh type thing, like bust into Lehigh to go to school.

SPEAKER_43 53:11

Um and I didn't realize how poor we were because everyone out there was poor.

SPEAKER_25 53:21

So it was it was like maybe high school by the time I realized, oh my gosh, we just don't have there's this thing called money and we don't have it, but everybody else's got some. And it it I don't know, it left me with this this hunger. Like I can remember I I got scholarship to play like little league football and things like that, because otherwise it just wouldn't happen. Um but it left me with this desire that it was like I needed to go earn. I needed to to to find a way to make some money so I could have a better life for myself. And and uh at the time I didn't know it. Uh my dad actually had told me this past year we were uh flying out to a Bronco game or sitting in the Delta Lounge, and he says, Hey, uh, you know, uh I can't remember what we were talking about, but he's like, Look, you've achieved uh a level of financial success that I will never achieve, can't even fathom as possible type thing. He's like, I raised uh the six of us, I'm the oldest of six, but he's like, I raised the six kids on on $35,000 a year. And I'm like, holy smokes, man, like I make $35,000 a week. You know, like you know. Um but in hindsight, it was that going without and seeing that if I could just find a way to, like you said, solve that problem, then I could get love, I could get respect, I could get the things that I wanted. And so for me, that solution was originally like I'm gonna join the army. And I'm there was a huge step up in my quality of life immediately. Where because you know, if my dad's making $35,000 a year raising six of us, and I'm going and I'm making thirty thousand dollars a year now, all my bills were paid. I had a a cool enough car, you know, like it it was interesting because I was satisfied then. But that's where I started to move the goalposts, like you you mentioned previously, where okay, uh I'm making this money now, but I'm gonna leave active duty and I'm gonna go start my own business and I'm gonna make more money. I didn't know how I was gonna do it yet, but it just became that wasn't good enough, move on to the next one. And I've noticed in my life, and maybe this is my mental illness, where I got the Porsche. I had a Porsche poster on my wall as a kid, like that was the first car I got. But then it stopped being about the Porsche, started being about, okay, I'm gonna get the Lambo. And then I got the Lambo, and it stopped being about the Lambo, and it started being about, okay, you know, I I my business made seven figures, now my business is gonna make eight figures. And then what? I just keep moving the goalpost further and further down, and I'm I'm curious to relate it back now to the conversation. You mentioned being motivated by the right things. What are the right things to you?

SPEAKER_58 56:11

Freedom.

SPEAKER_43 56:12

Yeah, when I had a $500,000 salary and had a huge company, I had no freedom.

SPEAKER_58 56:20

Like I was the mo I I actually came up with this analogy and it's it's real to me. Someone could have come up to me and said, Hey, the last couple years of that company, they could have said, Hey, 18 months in jail, no visitation from your kids. But you can trade spots right now. You can be in prison instead of dealing with what you deal with right now every day. And I would have taken that without even thinking. Jeez. Because I created my own hell, my own prison. Um, sure, a lot of that's because the business would be up and down, so so up and down. You know, payroll was $300,000 a week every week. We never miss payroll somehow, but it was stressful, right? And so I think on top of it was really hard because everybody thinks you're so successful. Wow, look at you, how great you're doing. It's like we barely made payroll this week. Yeah. I remember I was at the Entrepreneur of the Year finalist award, and it was a week after we laid people off for the first time in my whole life. Anybody that's had a business for a long time, that's just normal. Like I remember talking to people, they're like, Oh, that's your first time doing that. That happens. That will happen to you while you have a business if you're gonna keep doing this. Yeah. To me, it was the end of the world, right?

SPEAKER_25 57:31

Well, I mean, you carry all of that responsibility, and when it's your first time doing that, yeah. I mean, you're you're thinking about the families and the lives that are impacted.

SPEAKER_58 57:38

Yeah, just so hard on yourself, so hard, you know, in an unhealthy way. So um yeah, going back to you were saying, um what was your question on that?

SPEAKER_25 57:54

What's the the you said you talked about being motivated by the right things?

SPEAKER_58 57:58

Yeah, the right things, like just freedom. Like, so so I didn't have freedom. Like, I think most people on paper, it looked like I had all this freedom: salary, equity, business, house, cars, family, everyone's healthy. Like uh relationship was okay, you know, and uh, but I did not have freedom. Like I said, I would have rather actually been in prison than being in that situation day to day. It was that. And most of that, sure, business was stressful, but it was all in my head. Like I had created my own hell. I had okay, well, we got to get to the next level, we got to get to this place, we got to keep up this image. Like we've won Inc. 500 for four years in a row. What if we don't make the Inc. 500 list this year as fast as growing in the country? Like that's the craziest talk ever. Like that was literally something that would drive. If we don't hit it a fifth year in a row, people are gonna think we're we're going backwards. And if they think we're going backwards, the you know, who knows? Right, which is valuational tank. Yeah, yeah. Like, so crazy to be so driven by what everyone else's perception might be. It's all in my head. I created all that. Like, do you really think everybody's sitting there going, they better make the Inc. 500 for the fifth year? Nobody was doing that. So I created my own hell, and um, so now my entire purpose is driven all around freedom and creating freedom for other people. So freedom, sure, financially, but most of it starts within you. Like you've got to create that within yourself and then sign yourself up for things that'll help continue to create freedom.

SPEAKER_25 59:26

Gotcha. I like that. I like the way um you phrase that it's within you and you sign yourself up for more. Because I a lot of the people that I work with now, they're entrepreneurs, but they bottleneck themselves into the business. And I don't know if that's necessarily because they they're the ones who started the company. And so inherently at some point they were doing all of it. And, you know, maybe they hire a couple people to do some of it, but they just fill their schedule with so much busy work and maybe it's a mindset thing where they're not willing to get help or trust other people. But but also you I I mean, you mentioned you'd rather be in prison. A lot of people build themselves into that prison and they just stay there into perpetuity. What advice do you have for somebody to get out of that? And they call it entrepreneurship. Yeah, they call it I didn't want to work 40 hours a week for someone else, so I work 120 hours a week for myself.

SPEAKER_58 1:00:17

For myself, really. For your own prison is what it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 1:00:21

I didn't enjoy making eight thousand dollars a month in corporate America, so now I make eight hundred dollars a week for myself.

SPEAKER_58 1:00:28

But I think that is the common, the common theme I hear is that it takes a crazy amount of being driven and focus. We we know what that looks like to have success. It's not easy. It's real I think it's really difficult to like do that and not get addicted to it and not get overly focused and not just keep moving the goalposts on yourself and just grind yourself into the ground. So I think everybody goes through some sort of awakening at some point, or they don't and they just keep trying to make more. And when you ask what will be enough, their answer is more, and that's where they go with their whole life. So I think there's kind of the two types of entrepreneur. They're the ones that are just gonna continue to have to just more, more, more, and their happiness is never achieved because it's always being moved. Yeah, go post is always getting moved versus like actually creating real freedom.

SPEAKER_25 1:01:23

So you mentioned, you know, you feel like there's a level of being driven and focused that's required to be successful.

SPEAKER_50 1:01:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 1:01:30

I would almost argue that that's actually what leads you to the prison. You have to find a way, and maybe it's that you need a coach, a consultant, somebody on the outside, but you have to find a way to not limit yourself into the prison because the same drive that gets you the money is what's ultimately going to lead you to bottleneck yourself, ruin your relationship, step away from your family. Yeah. It's curious.

SPEAKER_58 1:01:55

Yeah, balance, right? Like I think uh that's where a coach and mentor can definitely be super helpful is in that scenario. I like I said, when I've been asked, like, what would you do differently? That's probably the biggest, quickest answer I usually have is having a coach or mentor earlier on would have saved me a lot of pain. I'd say a lot of suffering. Pain's gonna happen no matter what, but we need to choose how long we suffer. Oh, I like that. And I I continue to choose suffering because I didn't, you know, like like we talk about, sometimes you just think you got it all figured out, or they won't understand, or they won't get it, or it how you know they might have been successful in this business, but it doesn't apply to this one. So um well at the end of the day, it's just uh lack of humility in that scenario.

SPEAKER_25 1:02:37

I'm curious, you talked about balance a little bit. Um, but when you were you were mentioning what you do with freedom reserves, I would almost view that as more of an integration in the sense that you're not you're not so focused on like a work-life balance, you're focused on how do you integrate this all together to work in one direction.

SPEAKER_43 1:02:58

What do you think about that concept?

SPEAKER_58 1:03:02

So I think like it's interesting because we even named the company, if you didn't know this, Freedom, right? Freedom Reserves. Um, in this situation, it's focused on creating financial freedom for your for your cash, right? So um, yeah, that's been the theme of my whole life at this point is like guiding principles, value. Some people call them values. I found that that's been really important for me is like make sure I have those, a new, any new business, any new partnership, any new thing I'm doing. What are my guiding principles and does this fit? One of those is is it going to be fun? I think so many times. Chapter five in my book. Yeah, it's like we I've learned part of that process to rebuild myself is the value of fun. I don't have a problem working hard. Most entrepreneurs don't. We're we were we're usually a little broken that way. Our compass is a little broken, and I'll never I was explained to me by a therapist like when you think you're being lazy, like that's like someone else's like hardest work, right? So I have I have to know that about myself and know like that's not gonna be my problem. So my focus is on like, will this be fun? Are the people I'm doing it with gonna make it fun? Because I'll sign myself up for hard work all the time and just create my own my own prison again. So that's one of the the the guiding principles, or is it gonna create more freedom, right? And so so that's what I look at now when I look at opportunities and partners and you know, different groups to join and and even even just lunches, right? Like, is this person is it gonna be fun? Is it gonna be, you know, is it gonna create more freedom? Am I gonna be able to create freedom for them or some for me? Like it's I try to keep those guiding principles at the forefront on decisions, and it it's made a big difference for me.

SPEAKER_25 1:04:42

I like um this thought, you know, once you get your finances in check, maybe it's your budget, you're you're comfortable. Uh you've laid a foundation that you can actually start to build on. And I think a lot of people who don't get their values or their guiding principles in check, those are the people that are often struggling the most financially. And it's because you can't build to the next level until you have a good find of a foundation. And the finances is typically the foundation, in my opinion. The happiest people, financially comfortable. People that give back and they can help others, they're out of the scarcity mindset, it's because they're financially comfortable.

SPEAKER_58 1:05:15

I I totally agree. I think the way I've looked at it is I cannot believe how different my life's become once I wasn't worried about my paycheck next month. Yeah. So if someone just like, quick advice, I'm starting a business, like, and you give me 20 seconds and there's a million things, but want to be like, look, don't increase your lifestyle or go work hard. Whatever you've got to do to get to that spot probably means don't go buy the car yet. Right. Just get financial freedom. To me, financial freedom is you're not worrying about your paycheck next month. Right. Like, because that's how I lived almost my whole life. Yeah. Right. Even when you start having success, you just increase your expenses with it almost every time. Cause you've been waiting so long to finally have a little extra, and then you're like, well, I'll go buy that car now. Right. Yeah. So I think if you can get to where you have some room, it's amazing how much more creative you can get. And so many things that like I didn't even get to tap into until I finally had some space, some runway. Right. Like if you could create some runway in your business and your personal life financially, it's amazing how much more creative you can get and and how much more your brain will just process things differently. Like there's so many opportunities I just didn't even see around me until I had some runway. Like when I had that exit and I had some time, like I had a and we're talking like weeks. I had never had weeks in my life where I wasn't worried about money or worried about like or had a huge business opportunity on my plate. And just those weeks, like freedom reserves came from that. I mean, a couple of other great investments. Like I made more money from just being in a creative space in that like six to eight weeks than I have in like years combined. That's awesome. Just being in an open creative space. I say leave room for God to be creative. It's really hard for that to happen for you to be in that creative space to be in out of a scarcity mindset when you're like worried about your paycheck next month. So keep your finances where they need to be. Work your butt off to get the money you need so you can start to create that and try to get a chunk of money built up to where you have that space. But just continuing to be like worried about next week, how do you get out of scarcity mindset? Like you can't just sit there and look in the mirror all day and be like, I'm I'm abundantly thinking. Like, come on, that's not gonna work if you're really not in that place.

SPEAKER_25 1:07:33

You have to generate some value, earn something, and then you can say, okay, I can replicate this. I'm I'm curious. I keep saying I'm curious. I'm curious. I'm so curious. I'm learning a lot from you. Um there's a pattern that I I see often, and I just want to get your your idea on it here. You talked about how being in the creative space brought, you know, this company and a bunch of other positive investments for you. I think that there's two separate spaces. You have the prod productive space, you have the creative space. And when you're in the productive space, you're just building, working, doing the thing. You're never gonna get those creative opportunities. Yeah. And when you step out of the productive space, you might be in the creative space. Creative space can give you the idea, but you're never gonna action it until you get back into the productive space. Yeah. You see those as separate places, separate mindsets, or do you intertwine those very well?

SPEAKER_58 1:08:29

Great. Yeah, I think I've learned to balance those a lot better. Now, I I don't know how it is for every entrepreneur. I'll speak for me. I think I think more of them are built like me than than most, but it the principle applies either way. It's interesting, like you think about, I think most of us as entrepreneurs have no idea no problem just grinding and putting the work and doing it. I mean it's a badge of honor. Yep. But do we create enough room for us to be creative? The way you'll know is if if you think about you're like, how come I have this whole list of great ideas that only come when I'm in the shower?

unknown 1:09:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 1:09:02

The reason why I laugh about that, just about what's real, is it's the only, if it's the only place you actually have five to ten minutes, if your best ideas are only coming in the shower, that means you're not creating enough space for you to actually be creative. Yeah. Because it's the only time your phone's away, no one's in your place, and you finally have five to ten minutes to come up with a great idea. I think all of us have had that experience. Yeah. But like you should have other places that those are coming, come into fruition. You're missing out on so many other opportunities and how new ways to see things. So I, when I had to like start over, rebuild myself, figure out who I am, and from the ground up in every way, one of the great things that that came from that is to how to balance my life better, how to ground, how to, how to um, you know, like I said, leave room for God to be creative and to create some room for me to be creative. So now I think the old version of me would have almost shamed myself. Like, you're gonna go on a walk. Like there's not time to go on a walk. Like, and it got to where I relied on like going on a walk every night, and it was amazing the stuff that would just come out of that time. So it's not like you're gonna go spend four hours a day just like laying in the grass looking at the clouds. But being in, I had to intentionally design my life to to create scenarios, environments where I actually could have creativity happen. Yeah. And if it's only 10 minutes while you're in the shower, like you're missing out on a huge opportunity. So now some of my best ideas, I'm like, I just I got this problem, or things are actually going well, whatever it is. It's amazing if I just for me, it's like going on a walk because you're kind of switching right late brain, left brain naturally when you take a walk or um listen to books or whatever it is, but just making sure I have some time and space to like let things just kind of organically come together. I think the old version of me is just like, I'm gonna sit in this room and stare at that whiteboard until this problem is solved. Yeah, it's like that rarely worked. And the ideas that came up were terrible compared to just the organic ones that can come if you just leave some space for it to actually happen. You're just grinding looking at the paper the whole time, the computer, like, where's it where's that gonna come from? Definitely it's hard.

SPEAKER_25 1:11:09

That's something that we have in common. I tried to intentionally schedule 45 minutes to an hour, kind of in the early afternoon of the day, just to create a a gap where I can go walk the dog, I go to the gym, and just a separation. I think I get a couple benefits from that. The first is I get to decompress from whatever happened in the morning. Second is I'm in a position now where I'm not worried about work, but that allows me to think about whatever comes up in hand inherently or organically to me. And it maybe puts me in that creative space. That's not somewhere that I feel inherently strong. But if I don't have that time, then I'm just focused on my checklist, you know, doing my outbound messages, following up on sales calls, any of that other stuff, right? Um, but that doesn't help me grow. It's not like you said in the the start of this, it's not introducing the new vertical that helps me scale the business. That's just the mundane. Yeah. I have to get out of that. So I intentionally try to do that 45 minutes to an hour. I love it. Yeah. I wanted to ask about um okay, so you mentioned your guiding principles.

SPEAKER_49 1:12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 1:12:18

Having fun. Yeah. Uh I have two thoughts on this. The first uh was taught to me by Marie Forlio, and she shared this concept of the total body yes, which was she was just doing too much. I mean, uh, if you're familiar with her audience, if you're familiar with Marie, she runs Marie TV, is a consultant, does uh, I don't know, a hundred content channels of stuff, like just insane volume, really high performer. And she got to the point where she's just constantly burned out, feels like there's not enough hours in the day. So she comes up with this concept of the full body yes. And if any ounce of her being doesn't want to do something, automatically a no. Now, most people will look at that and say, that's just not realistic. I love it though, and I use it constantly. If I don't feel comfortable with something, it's no. If I don't want to do something, it's a no. If I don't enjoy doing something, it's a no. Now that doesn't mean I only do super fun, easy things where I'm laughing and playing with the kids. I can recognize that there's joy in the labor and that the journey will be rewarding and that I'll achieve something. And really I'm an achievement chaser. That's that's like my thing, is I'm I'm always chasing an achievement. So I can do hard things and things that suck to go chase that achievement. But when somebody invites me to do something and I don't want to do it, it's just a no. Just a no. And it doesn't have to be complicated. I simplify that. So I like to use that as a guiding principle. But then I wrote uh a book a couple years ago called How the Hell Are You Doing This? And it was the principles that I learned through military and business that allowed me to build success in my my organizations and with my relationships. And I said chapter five. It's titled, If it's not fun, I'm going home. And that's kind of my litmus now for if I'm gonna continue to do something. Like I'm I'm still in the Army National Guard, but I'm only in the Army National Guard until I stop enjoying it. And the the day that that work stops becoming fulfilling to me, or I stop enjoying the relationships that I have there, I'm out. I don't I don't need that anymore. I don't need the money. I don't need the you know okay. Actually, I was very grateful. So then the military you get uh TriCare, which is like the government insurance. Yeah, yeah. Great insurance. I was very grateful for that this month. Uh, you know, our our fourth child was born on April 1st. I do, because we were gonna have a podcast. We were gonna podcast. Uh we we rescheduled. Thanks so much for working with us, by the way.

SPEAKER_58 1:15:15

That was so funny who's like, not even like really, that's his excuse. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_25 1:15:20

Yeah, right. This will be so easy to verify or disprove. Um so my son is born with his umbilical cord around his neck. Oh. Um, which he's you know trying to gasp for air. They get it untangled, but he takes such a forceful first breath as a result, then it ruptured his lungs and then lets air into his chest, which collapses his lungs. So then he's got to get a needle chest decompression. They have to insert a chest tube to allow the air that's escaping to like leave his chest so he can force breathe. They got him on like the ventilator. They life flight him to uh we my wife gave birth in uh Orim community, so just up the road. Life flight him to Provo, um, which okay, he's gonna be in the NICU for the first two weeks. Like, we can deal with that, but he's racking up those medical bills really quickly. And then my wife also gets this postpartum pre-eclampsia and hypertensive crisis type stuff where she's got like a blood pressure of 190 over 120. She's in and out of the hospital multiple times that week, too. So I'm like, we racked up a hundred thousand plus in medical bills in a week. And I'm like, thank God for TRICARE. I needed that military insurance. Like staying in the army is all worth it now, you know. So while I might say things like, yeah, I don't need the paycheck or anything like that, man, am I grateful for that insurance right now. Um, because those would have been expensive weeks. But uh yeah, it's it's now what I do is more just the fulfillment piece. Like I ran for for city council last year. I got elected, won in a landslide, you know. I didn't need to do the city council. I mean, as I I actually it's funny now because if anybody ever says anything to me, I'm like, I make more money in an hour on the civilian side than I'll get paid in a year on the city council. It's it's strictly uh like experience thing. Yeah. I can do good, I can help other people, but also I become a better version of myself in that service. I can help others, I can learn about how the city functions, I can understand people's problems and get a little bit different perspective, and all of that just helps me be a better version of me. Yeah. And I think that that's when I think about being motivated by the right reasons, that's where I feel the most motivation and satisfaction is I'm on a path that helps me be a better me.

SPEAKER_58 1:17:50

I love that. Yeah, some things that kind of came to mind when uh you were talking through all that is uh I was going back a little bit, but um I remember the the billionaire that that learned a lot from he reminded me like, and this is coming from a guy that's had you know has hundreds of companies um and he said you're gonna get indigestion from opportunity, so you gotta learn how to say no. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, you know, I I don't think I knew how to do that yet. And I think he saw that. I still don't.

SPEAKER_25 1:18:25

So I'm curious your take on that. Um how do you say no to things? Now I know that's a loaded question. I I maybe it's that I just have put myself in really good positions, and I'm starting to say no to some things. Like I coached high school football and middle school football for the last decade. I'm done. I had to had to hang it up to do city council. But I feel like I get a lot of awesome opportunities presented to me. Yeah. And I say, like, I I think we were talking at the start of this. Like my I've got e-com businesses, I I run this podcasting studio, I do coaching and consulting, I've got uh property management and investing, we do uh luxury cars and time pieces and another business. Like, I'm just in a lot of pots. Military, the net the the city council. I'm finishing my doctorate right now. Why? Just because like I had the opportunity, so I said yes. But I I I operate then in a very compacted, conflicted schedule. I I got an executive assistant now, Trinity. You know, she's managing my schedule, we're time blocking everything, you know, so it's just go, go, go, go, go all day long. I think that that one lets me lean into everything to the most. Like when I'm in here podcasting, I'm only podcasting. And then before I would get bored of it, I can go to the next time block and uh lets me weaponize my ADHD a little bit, maybe. But I've never I've never really got good at saying no to stuff. Because even if I say no to one thing, it's like two more opportunities present themselves right behind it. Uh am I saying no to three things or do I say, you know, how do you what's your I know the again, loaded question. What's your um thought on saying no? How do you say no? What do you what do you use as the test of if it's a yes or a no?

SPEAKER_58 1:20:19

Well, I think the logic side you handle by those guiding principles and values that kind of you need to establish ahead of time. Like have your list, is it gonna be fun? Is it gonna be more freedom or less freedom? You know, those are some of the things for me. And then I've really learned to trust my gut more. I don't know why, if it was just me or maybe other people relate, but I was really over-dialed on like the logic. Like to me, there was no such thing as a sixth sense that was like woo-woo didn't wasn't real. And it should just all be like logic, build a spreadsheet, the spreadsheet will tell you if you should do it or not, type of thing, right? I love that. I do the same thing. It's so I'm never gonna have a problem being logical, and probably a lot of you know, men are usually more wired that way naturally. So my compass is always gonna be more broken that way. So where I have to focus and be more intentional is to create room to trust my body, my heart, mind, spirit, whatever you want to call it, your gut, sixth sense, all that stuff. I've realized it's all real. There's actually science behind it. And there's like there's an energy. And I think really turning up the volume on how much I equate that and how much I um value that. I think before I'd be like, okay, 80% of the decisions based on the logic spreadsheet thing, and 20% might be like my gut. And as I've reversed that or tried to, at least I tell myself that's what it is, it's probably more 50-50, but I'm intentionally trying to value it the other way around, everything just seems to flow so much better and uh more success in any way you measure it and way less stressful. So I think when you realize your gut and all these things, for those of you that just need it to be explained scientifically, like it's just your brain doing a million microprocessing things that you don't even realize it's doing that uh that's ultimately what I think your gut can add up to being.

SPEAKER_25 1:22:22

You know, it doesn't always isn't just some mythical thing floating in the air, but it's like I'm sure you get so many things going on, maybe that creates a chemical imbalance or a release, and that's why you feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_58 1:22:34

Yeah. Should I come on this podcast? Like my gut was like, Yes. Well, I've never even met you. Like, I didn't look you up or anything.

SPEAKER_18 1:22:42

It's crazy because again, we're in the same club.

SPEAKER_58 1:22:43

So how do we not know each other? Yeah, so maybe, maybe that's why my gut said yes. Well, we're in the same club. He wouldn't be there if you know he he wasn't similar to Hondo because that's his, you know, yeah, I'm a huge believer. I used to wear some around my neck that said you attract who you are. So I I've had such a great experience in that group. He's probably just like everybody else. The fact that he's putting this together and inviting me means he's, you know, getting back to some level or there's something positive coming from this, you know. And so I don't know why. The point is, is instead of spending days and weeks analyzing that and putting on a spreadsheet, I just your gut will tell you a lot of what you need to know. And our bodies and our minds are so powerful. And if we can turn the volume up on that and figure out how to create room for that stuff to come up, and then I think most of it comes from if you actually follow through with it, your body, your heart, your mind, whatever you want to call it, will trust you more and it will continue to give you more of that. So that's that's really helped me with saying no to things or saying yes to things with your whole body, as you said.

SPEAKER_25 1:23:46

I really like that. I um, you know, I am in Russell Brunson's inner circle now, and and I talk to him as a mentor, but that's something that he does really well, and it's something that I've always struggled with. I'm very much data-driven decision making. Um, so you talk about putting things on the spreadsheet and looking at the the analysis for it, I'm like, oh yeah, that's what I do. I struggle with the gut. I I uh maybe I've conditioned myself, if I'm just speculating, to not actually get maybe those chemical reactions or have those feelings anymore where it's just I'm I don't necessarily feel those sensations strongly. Maybe that's just me. I don't know. I do gotta maybe I'll talk to my coach about it this week.

SPEAKER_58 1:24:33

Yeah, I think that's a great. I mean, I was that way too. Like it it just might be you haven't used those muscles as much recently or whatever and had to. I think there's so many decisions to make off of data, but and then but there's also like gotta leave some room for the creativity to occur.

SPEAKER_22 1:24:47

And yeah, and I know that I'm weak in that area.

SPEAKER_58 1:24:50

I think when you look at some of the really fun stories, it probably from your own career, when you think back, it's like of some of the biggest and best decisions you made, you'll probably find more of them came from like a gut instinct versus like, yeah, I was in the spreadsheet and the spreadsheet told me this and I did it. This data-driven decision is what made me here.

SPEAKER_25 1:25:10

That's true, actually. I I my biggest failures in business were still data-driven decisions.

SPEAKER_58 1:25:16

Yes. Yeah. So I bet if you look at if you look back and you go with like, what were some of the best decisions I made that worked well? It's pretty rare that it wasn't gut-driven. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_25 1:25:29

It's usually, it's usually people for me are the best decisions that I make. And those I've And how do you analyze that on a spreadsheet? Exactly. Exactly. So uh now that you're talking through this a little bit and I'm putting that in perspective, you're a hundred percent correct. I the things that drove my organization forward the most were getting the right people involved. And then like we talked about at the start, you know, the the rainmaker triad, yeah, I'm very much a rainmaker in the sense like I want to go have conversations with people, I want to meet you, understand you, I'm gonna drive revenue and sales, like that's just what I do. But I suck at being an engineer and I suck at being a creator, and so I have to hire creators and engineers. And if I hire creators and engineers, they'll cover my weaknesses. And then the organization can grow as a result, but it's the people. And then when it comes to hiring the people, I've always done it just based on I mean, the we take your resume, we'll look at your stuff, see where you're at. Ultimately, that's like the smallest piece of the pie for me. I want to talk to you, I want to get to know you, I want to see where your mindset is, and then I'm hiring based on trust and character and less on any other thing because I can teach you what I need you to do. We can train you or coach you in the role, but I can't teach and train trust the same way or character the same way. So then it's a vibe check. And if you pass the vibe check. There you go. The vibe check. That's a gut decision.

SPEAKER_58 1:26:56

Yep. So you're probably you probably just aren't recognizing how good you are at it. And like you said, it's like look at how many people dishoices you believe clearly have led to some great success. So you you are using it because you can only put that interview on a spreadsheet so much. Like at the end of the day, you just describe it like you're gonna vibe check them. Like that's what you're doing. There's really no when it comes to picking people, like you can have them do all the tests that some people have them do and all that, but like I'm starting to have people do those now. Yeah, that can help. That can help some of the data, but yeah, I think at the end of the day, that that calculator, that computer right there is gonna micro process a million different things and give you a great answer if you can learn to trust it and hear it.

SPEAKER_25 1:27:41

I love it. So let's look back maybe a little bit. Um, I told you at the start of the show, we do things largely from the lens of how do we help people who are starting, who are, you know, maybe beginning their business journey, they're trying to launch a company, they're struggling. How do we help them overcome those obstacles? So if you could look back, let's say to Jess twenty ten what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_43 1:28:06

What advice would you give yourself?

SPEAKER_58 1:28:12

I think uh trusting your gut, creating room for you to be creative, for for there to be creativity. Right? Like designing your life so there's some balance so things can flow. Figure out who you are. I think uh one of the things I did well was like find an opportunity and then go learn to love that. You know, I never thought like, oh I want to get into solar, I want to get into finance, I want to get no, where's the opportunity? I'm gonna go learn to love that. I remember when I was being interviewed for Entrepreneur of the Year finalist thing, and it's like, what do you love about solar? And like I remember having this weird moment, I was like, I don't even realize I'm in solar. Like I'm in this, I'm just I think I'm just building a culture. Like I'm in the business of building a business and building a culture that creates success. Like I would forget about what the product really was because it didn't really matter to me. And so I just found that was the opportunity at the time, just like the opportunity right now is is um you know, cash management with Freedom Reserves. That that's the opportunity that came across that I ran into and found a way to bring value to people. So I'm gonna learn to love it. And um that's that's something that um that's really helped me. And then I think the mentorship thing is such a such a big thing. You gotta find the right mentor. Probably follow your gut on that. There's a million people out there that you know will say they can show you and teach you, but yeah. Um it's probably not somebody that's like I think the hint would be it's probably not somebody that's approaching you saying, Let me be your mentor. It's usually not how it goes down. Your gut will probably tell you. And the thing that's really interesting about I think so many people think, well, if that person's had all the success, they've made millions or billions even, why are they gonna spend any time on me? And it's like the most fulfilling thing for me to do.

SPEAKER_13 1:30:12

I agree.

SPEAKER_58 1:30:12

I learn so much from so many people around me, and I look at how valuable the stuff was that I was given, like literally got myself out of mental prison, right? Because of having great therapists, mentors, friends that helped me get there and really save my life, right? And so if I can give any of that back to somebody else, plus I've done all the work, like why wouldn't I help you cut a few corners? Yeah, absolutely. A little less than people did that for me, but it's like the most fulfilling thing, right? To to be able to circulate that. The other thing that's really selfish about it is like my favorite, my favorite part of my week is usually about like these coaching sessions with other entrepreneurs that I have. And what's so fun is I actually just get to relearn it. Most of it is like stuff I already know, but it isn't almost everything stuff we already know or heard or seen. Yeah, at some point. And it's like, oh yeah, that's right. Like, so I get to watch them on their journey, maybe have a little smaller version of what I've been through before, and I get reminded of that myself, and now I have to reapply it to myself wherever I'm at today. So I just like I get to continue to learn and grow from those opportunities too. So I think you'll find most people that have had success, like they are more than happy to give it back to you. So approach them, ask them for lunch, ask them for whatever, and tell them why. I think sometimes people that are successful get hit up with a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_51 1:31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 1:31:33

And if you can just say, I just want to learn from you, you're gonna get a lot of yeses to those lunches. And uh so much can come from that. So I think the mentorship thing um was key for me. I found it from business partners typically. I definitely wish I would have had some more intentional, like, this is what this person is. They're focused on me and how to help me grow personally and financially and you know, in business.

SPEAKER_25 1:31:59

So let me ask about freedom reserves a little bit, the cash management piece. You kind of talked about what you do earlier. Yeah. Who do you typically serve with that? Or what's what's the kind of people that you want to do business with in that? Is it entrepreneurs? Is it business owners? Who who is that uh client that you're serving?

SPEAKER_58 1:32:18

Yeah, cash reserves is really focused on liquidity, you know, five-day liquidity is how it works specifically. Managing your capital safely. So you're talking, you can never say guaranteed, but it's as low risk as it gets. Um and then just a higher yield, you know, we're usually depending on your balance, it's a fixed guaranteed six percent, can be a little more if you have a bigger balance. So we designed it around like where we do well is with business owners, entrepreneurs, um, personal and business. Like for me, going back to the smaller construction company we sold at one point. So our operating expenses were about 50 grand a month. They weren't weren't huge, maybe a little higher than that sometimes. But we'd slowly had built up to where we had a million dollars in cash just there in the bank. And I'd talk to my business partner all the time, like, we should do some of this money. It's like, well, if we distribute it, we're paying taxes, and what else could we do with it? Like, and we just kind of found ourselves, and this was the case with other businesses, sometimes the numbers were a lot bigger, but you just didn't do anything with it. It just sit in your checking account, and that's what you do. So we designed this so that it's right there, it's liquid, it's your dry powder. I I wish I would have had something like this then, so we could have put the money in in there, and then if we needed it, it was five days away, you know, five day liquidity. So um to be able to make six percent or more fixed and a super safe, you know, investment. Um uh it works just like a high-yield savings account. You have an app, you just tell it when you want your money back out, put money back in. So that's really where we designed it, and that's where we do well.

SPEAKER_25 1:33:50

Very cool. You mentioned you do well with business owners and entrepreneurs, both personal and business. Is there a threshold to sign on? Like, do you only work with people over seven figures? Do you work with people that are starting?

SPEAKER_58 1:34:04

Yeah, we um two reasons why we can do a higher yield is we only have accredited investors. Okay. And 100,000 is what you need to open an account. You can always go up or down once you open the account. So part of that is you can do a higher yield when you have accredited investors because they found banks have found the data shows they don't they're just not as up and down and move money around as much. Not as volatile. So the money can usually stay more invested. So um, and the second second reason is, you know, one thing I love about as you going back to like the compound effect, as you build that momentum, it gets easier and easier. So even though, you know, there's a past life with a with the finance company that did really well, I chose to get bought out early. I didn't, I didn't get the full cash out on that one. It was my fault. I'll take the blame. Stayed friends with CEO, who's my current business partner. We're still great friends. It just I needed to focus on other things. And then the company ended up having this huge, you know, multi-billion dollar jump in revenue right after. I was probably bad luck. So um, so all that to say that like when you do that kind of volume, my current partner was the CEO, then you could you build some really unique banking relationships. Oh, absolutely. That's what opened the door to build this new company. And so even though that previous company was successful, I made some money from it. The bigger opportunity was just the step. Yeah, just the step. Now we have direct access to the institutions, the tier one global banks only on how they make money, and we're able to get people direct access into how they make money. So we can pay our higher yield because of that. That's awesome. So that's really how that came about was it's really built off of a past business that we had a you know, a lot of success that opened up a lot of doors, and now we built a new company around that and designed it for ourselves.

SPEAKER_25 1:35:50

Now you said uh you only work with accredited investors. So I might butcher this, but uh I believe accredited investors is 250,000 or more in uh is it is it cash, is it net worth or the exact regulation?

SPEAKER_58 1:36:05

It's 200,000 individual or 300,000 for uh combined household income for two years or more, or a million dollar net worth.

SPEAKER_25 1:36:16

Gotcha. That's kind of the collection right now. I put a deposit on Friday for an SF ninety. Uh so we're gonna add that to the collection as we move the Aston Martin and Bentley onto their new homes.

SPEAKER_58 1:36:30

Uh did you see Hondo's second SF-90 he got? Second? No. He traded the black one two days later. Oh. Yeah. So he got an SF-90, and then he's like, hey, come to the dealership, let's have a Ferrari date because they're just gonna show me how to use this thing. So I get there and he's like sitting in a convertible. And I'm like, hey, buddy, how's it? Okay, this all makes sense then.

SPEAKER_25 1:36:54

I think I probably am buying the one that he is it black? Yeah, the black with yellow. Yep. Yeah, yellow calipers, yellow trim. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_58 1:37:01

That's what you're gonna buy? Sweet. So that one was awesome. And then he's a Batmobile. And then he's like, I kind of wanted a convertible, and he's like sitting in it, and I'm like, okay. So I sit down next to him. I realize like he kind of wants somebody to help him talk him into this.

SPEAKER_19 1:37:15

So I'm like, That's why you invited the friend.

SPEAKER_24 1:37:17

The friend is gonna get you across the finish line. Totally what happened. It was so great.

SPEAKER_25 1:37:21

I uh I actually Ferrari, man. My struggle with Ferrari. Uh, I went in there looking at 296s, like GTS's convertibles. Because I want a convertible too. But I've got the Hurricon. The Hurrican's a convertible. Yeah. And then you get in there and you're looking right now. Right now, they have three 296s, 440 and under. They've got uh two F-8s, F-8 Spiders, 440 and under. They got the SF-90 in there, 440 and under. Like, I'm like, oh, you got all of these awesome cars at this price point. So I just I test drove them all. Went and played around with all of them, but I'm like, you can't beat that SF-90 right now, man. For the price, the bang for the buck on the car.

SPEAKER_58 1:38:09

I've never been in a car that did that to me. Like the plaid is it's like the plaid feeling, but then you get the emotion of the exhaust with it, so it makes it even feel faster. Yeah. Which at the end of the day, how it feels is ultimately what you're buying the car for. Exactly. I think we all study the logic right back to the business thing. It's like on paper, this has more horsepower per pound and blah, blah, blah. But it's like, but what does it feel like? Because if that's all you're into, yeah, you might as well just you should everybody would want to test the Model S plat because that's it. Fastest car ever made. You can fit all your kids in it, blah, blah, blah. Well, there's a reason why people don't buy it. A lot of the people are, especially in the exotic world, are like why the SF90 is even at the price point it is, is because a lot of people don't want the hybrid. They want the the V10 naturally aspirated hurricons. Yeah. You know, that's why the values have gone up. So not everybody, but what's the soul? What does it make me feel is why people bought an exotic car in the first place. Yeah. It's not for practicality or something that's on a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_25 1:39:12

And I went in there looking at 296 GTSs, and it's, you know, V6 hybrid, but the V6 is massively underwhelming. The sound just wasn't there. You don't feel it. And then it's almost, you know, like a Porsche, very effortless. Everything it does just goes. It's quiet. Yeah. That's how the 296 felt. And so then I'm like, well, this isn't, it's not as special as I thought it was going to be. But you get in that SF90 and it's loud and rowdy, and then you hear it just electronic and everything about it was just a super oh, I was gonna say supercar, yeah, but super emotional.

SPEAKER_58 1:39:48

Yeah, that's why you got it. Yeah. Yeah. The my partners got the black GT2RS there. Awesome. And uh same thing, like that's Porsche's track car. Like that's the ultimate fastest car 9-11 ever made. And it's incredible. Well, we don't want to change anything about it because it's more investment grade. Yep. And uh, so no exhaust. But if that had an exhaust, it'd be insane. So compared to the Technica and the V10, the exhaust on that is so amazing, even though it's a stock exhaust, it's much more emotional. So it's funny because we actually enjoy the Technica more as far as the emotional drive than even the the 2RS, yeah. Because it feels better, you know, the sound is a little more emotional, yeah. Yeah, so so it's really interesting how you know, if you're just looking on a spreadsheet, that one would be more fun, but you know, just depends on a lot of other factors that that what it hasn't make you feel, right?

SPEAKER_25 1:40:46

So if you're watching the show now and we were just talking about like accredited investors and then jump straight into uh you know supercars, we had to do a quick battery change on the cameras and we were just talking, feeling good. Gosh, I love cars. I love cars for the experience of the cars. Um I wasn't crazy story. I would have failed high school auto shop if the teacher didn't kidnap me, and then they kind of forced the school to just give me a good grade. Teacher kidnapped me, hilarious. Um, wasn't a real kidnapping, it was just uh I had got viral meningitis in high school, was hospitalized for a week or two, was bed rest for like a month, just totally out of it. So I go back to school, and uh this teacher's just pissed off that like I hadn't been there and now he has to accommodate me, getting back into class and all that stuff. Um trying to catch me up when I'm you know a month and a half behind now or whatever. And uh I had a follow-up doctor's appointment. My mom had come to check me out of school, and they call down on the PA system, hey, send Parker McCumber to the office, he's being checked out. The teacher's like, he's not here. And I'm like, oh hey, I'm I'm right here. And he's like, shut up and sit down. And I'm like, uh, okay. Like pull out my phone and text my mom. I'm like, hey, I'm in class, but the teacher's not letting me leave. And uh the school calls down again, and they're like, Hey, Parker McCumber is getting checked out, you gotta send him, send him down here. He's like, Nope, he's not not here. So, like, my mom and the school resource officer have to come down with the principal to like see if I'm actually in class or if I'm just messing with her or something. And I'm just sitting there, sitting there in the desk. They're doing a PowerPoint presentation on transmissions or something dumb like that. I don't know. And uh it's this whole big fuss. And the principal essentially like just pulls the teacher out of the classroom, uh school resource officers like telling him you can't do this. You're essentially kidnapping a child. Wild. But then uh then the school made sure I passed that class.

SPEAKER_37 1:43:09

No bad.

SPEAKER_25 1:43:10

Curious story. Um, yeah, my my dad threatened to uh because that was my senior year, and so my grades tanked, like was just in a bad spot, but my dad threatened to sue the school or press charges against the school for the kidnapping if I didn't. Uh hilarious. Okay. Um so before that, we're talking about uh who you serve in freedom reserves, yeah, and and how that vehicle looks and works. Um and we we mentioned accreditor investors make over a million dollars or a million dollars net worth, 200,000, yeah, something something like that to play with. Um and my thought that I wanted to bring up was like and maybe you alluded to this not being the right mindset, is that that is my retirement model kind of. If I can put five million dollars into something and I can get six percent out of it for the rest of my life, I mean, even five percent, that's two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. Bills are paid, we're living good. I can just chill. But I mean, maybe that's not actually the end goal. You know, I'd love to have a hundred million dollars sitting in an account paying me five percent a year. But uh is that typically how you see that that um freedom reserves used? Is it people they put their money in there and then they just live on that that uh interest essentially?

SPEAKER_58 1:44:37

It's a really good question. I think the way that we've we've found to explain this best is it's like think of your money in three different categories. You have your checking account, you have your cash reserves, this middle ground, and then you have like your growth investments. If you were to think of your money in those three categories, typically a lot of us just are living paycheck to paycheck and we're starting out, checking account. Yeah. Then you start to build these reserves. You actually have a savings account. You put a thousand dollars in there. I remember the first time I had two grand in my savings account, it was like crazy to me. It's like I thought I was rich. Right. So you build up that savings account, your dry powder. And this goes for business owners too. Same thing. They start out some point, we all start from nothing, and then you grow it into something bigger. And then you start, once you have enough there, you're you start investing into growth investments. That's usually typically something where you're trying to make 10% or more than that. Yeah, and you're locking up your money for a period of time, six months, eight years. Throwing everything at that SpaceX IPO. There you go. So it's like whatever that is, we're not that, and we're not your checking account. We're that middle ground. Everybody has the dry powder or your savings account. This is money you probably have in the money market account. Where we do really well right now is people that have a high yield savings or money market account. Those are in the threes right now. Yeah. Where we're at six. And so, and it's the same risk profile. I mean, you've got, you can't ever say guarantee, but this is your like really safe where you put your safe money at. Yeah. So so that's where we are, is we're in that space where, you know, again, your dry powder that you need to use. A lot of times people use us in between those growth investments. Oh, I invested in this real estate project, it funded. I have another 90 days before the next one, put it here. Or until so this is the money you have set, or between cars, right? Like you sell a watch, you sell a car, you just got this cash out, put it here, and then when you need it, you we just need a five-day notice. And then you're able to get your money back out whenever you need it. So you're making about double the yield for most what they call cash, right? For your cash management. So that's the advantage that we provide with with Freedom Reserves is just uh about double the yield you'll typically get from a cash management strategy that's ultra low risk.

SPEAKER_25 1:46:45

Now you said you need $100,000 to start an account, but you don't have to keep $100,000 in it. Is that correct? Right. Right on, right on.

SPEAKER_58 1:46:51

So you can go up and down. Like once you get access, we just have an app, you just manage everything from the app.

SPEAKER_25 1:46:56

What uh I guess life changes or or what success stories do you have that you can share with the audience about people coming over and using your service?

SPEAKER_58 1:47:05

Yeah, I think um I think where it's been really fun for, you know, I think we gave a few examples, but where it's been really good is you have people just between investments that are they finally, you know, did their investment. They're trying to, you know, bridge it before their next one. And so this is just a really good landing spot in between. There's also people that just want something super safe. Like I got off the phone today with with somebody that he he actually manages his aunt's money. He just has the power of attorney and she's older and she's got you know a chunk of money that needs to last her the rest of her life, and so he's in charge of it. So he's like, I don't want to do anything super risky. He's also not like a professional investor either. Like he doesn't personally have this much money necessarily to invest, but all of a sudden he's now responsible for this bigger chunk of money that's got to last his aunt the rest of her life. Yeah. So he really likes it for that reason because it's ultra, ultra safe, but it's still giving some sort of significant return, you know, compared to what else is out there.

SPEAKER_25 1:48:06

Right on. So, man, it's uh I like it. I mean, I'm thinking about it from the business perspective. Yeah. And uh, you know, maybe you're in a position you're a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs buy and sell businesses too. And so then I mean, you're you're constantly in this position where you need to have the cash accessible. So you don't want to tie it up in long-term investments or something that's gonna nailed it. Yeah, yeah, that's not gonna be liquid. The five-day liquidity makes those processes a lot easier.

SPEAKER_58 1:48:39

We have been, it's funny you say that because when I sold my company in 2023, I was spoiled because money market accounts were at five and a quarter, unheard of. You know, now they're about three and a half to three nine, and they'll they'll go down when the Fed lowers rates, you know, whatever the Fed lowers rates, that they definitely changed right away. And so I remember that day. It was an exciting day, my first like real exit, you know, and and uh I remember looking and like, hey, tell them to send my money to this money market account, not to my checking account, because I make like $215 a day or something like that, right? And and so I was like, make sure it goes straight there so I can make that extra 200 bucks. That was exciting to me, right? And it was at five and a quarter. So it was just really fun for me to like have a chunk of money that was making something that I was sleeping and I knew it was making money. Like that concept of finally making enough money to do that was like really exciting for me. So again, we designed this for ourselves. We designed this for people like us, people that are, you know, they really have done a lot to to create that money. It means a lot to them, and now, you know, they want to do something smart with it. So I we're definitely a fun landing spot when people have exits. We're really that's another one. I've got a guy that's like, I have a friend that's about to sell for a hundred plus million. And he makes it. Man, I wish I was selling for a hundred million. And what's funny is usually what we find is One of the things I love now is I love hearing the entrepreneur story and the and the and just like you, right? And so I love getting to hear all those things. And so typically, if someone's having that kind of success, any sort of exit from their business, they were probably super focused. Chances of them being smart and wise at investing is probably pretty low. Like we talked about.

SPEAKER_18 1:50:19

Yeah, they're focused on the business and the growth.

SPEAKER_58 1:50:21

I think we all assume, including myself, like I was I didn't know anything about it. Yeah. You know, I've got uh brother-in-law that's just really smart, really wise at this. And then I presented him, you know, Freedom Reserves, and he was kind of like, Oh, I think this is a little better than the CD I'm in. And it's like, yeah, it's like three times the rate. And he but he doesn't even know. Yeah. Why? Because you're laser focused on running a successful organization, you're not a professional investor. So it's nice having a business partner that that's what he did before. He was a wealth advisor for ultra successful people. So we have that, you know, as part of like our mindset and our leadership group. Um, but yeah, we're we're a fun landing spot for when you have an exit. You're gonna need to do something with that money right away until you decide where to deploy some money in some long-term, you know, investments or some fun toys or whatever you want to do with it, right? Like we're a really good spot for that.

SPEAKER_25 1:51:12

Well, I and I'm thinking about the strategy just in my own life. And I've I've shared the story a few times with uh the audience here. I snowball everything is kind of my theory. So I bought my first exotic, was that GT3RS back in 2020. Um I can't remember, you know, maybe I put 20% down was what was required because I didn't have any credit history with exotic cars or anything like that. And so they weren't willing to give me the better rates or anything yet. So I maybe I come up with 30 grand right to to put down on this this car. I bought the car for $150,000. I sat on that car for 18 months and I sold that car for $215,000. So now I'm sitting on like I pulled out after all is said and done, I've got 60 grand cash off of this car ownership. So that becomes the down payments on the next two cars. Yeah. And I just repeated the process. Hold those cars for a year. Snowball. They appreciate in value, right? Because we're finding the right make model, trim, all the options that are going to be high desirable, low miles, something that we can position ourselves as the premium when it goes to resell later. And then I rinse and repeat. And you know, on those ones, I didn't make 60 grand on those, but you know, I make 15 on each of them. So then I sell those, and it's not just the 30 grand that you have out now, it's the original 60 too. Yep. So now I've got 90 grand to put into my next set of cars. But that was how I just I snowballed the cars. But then in between each one, I've got this chunk of you know, 90,000, 100,000 now. Yep. And so that's a cool position to be able to move that into, get a better rate. Still liquid enough that you can pull it out within a week to go complete the purchase. You maybe put a deposit on something, wait for the money to clear, move it over.

SPEAKER_58 1:53:04

Yeah. Perfect example. We have that on that scale. We have it on larger scale.

SPEAKER_25 1:53:09

Well, yeah, because you do that same process with businesses, with homes. Like if you're into flipping. Yep.

SPEAKER_58 1:53:14

Yeah, definitely have some of those uh people doing like a 1031 exchange from real estate project, real estate project or whatever. Like the money's got to go somewhere, and it's shocking how many people just have it huge chunks of money just sitting in their checking account, making nothing.

SPEAKER_25 1:53:28

Here's a a question for you based on on what you just said. So I did a 1031 exchange last year, sold a home that we flipped, uh, turned around, put it into a row of town homes. I understand the rules of the 1031 exchange is it can't go to you. The money can't go to you. So it typically goes to a brokerage account. Right. And then then it gets moved. Could you, in theory, just have that money go to your an account with you? Because then it's not coming to me as a payment, but it's being invested in the meantime.

SPEAKER_58 1:53:59

The answer is yes, it would need to be, you know, the third party that's holding it would have to have the account set up. Right. The account couldn't be in your name, but yeah, you can do that.

SPEAKER_25 1:54:08

But you yeah, you could make somebody do that, put that money to work, collect some interest on it in the in the interim.

SPEAKER_58 1:54:14

Yeah, we get a lot of those requests too, like little it's amazing how many times there's these things like that where the money's gotta sit or in be in between. Um, you know, I've got a home builder that I work with, like uh he's building Darren Williams' house, you know, and then so cool, you know, like he was just using an example, like, yeah, he's gonna give me a deposit, just like every client does. And while I'm building the house, it'll I mean put it in there. Yeah, might as well put it in in there and let it work. That's basically, you know, an extra employee every pays for an employee.

SPEAKER_25 1:54:41

Think about think about a um on a 1031 exchange, for example, you have to use that money in within what six months. So or you have six months to identify a year to complete the purchase, maybe something like that. But even if you just move that money over for six months out of the year on a hundred thousand dollars, it's three grand. Yep. Free money. Free money.

SPEAKER_58 1:55:03

Yep. And it's yeah, it's not like we said, it's not like your big growth investment. You're also not tying the money up. There's also like you can never say no risk, but you're you'd have to have like a global economic take out the tier one bank type crisis, happen to have your money at risk. So you're this is where you really can put your safe money that you know you can't afford to lose that you really need access to. That's where we do well.

SPEAKER_25 1:55:25

For the audience that maybe doesn't know, uh, what's a tier one bank? Um like what's the difference between if you if you're saying that and that's your going to America First Credit Union, you know.

SPEAKER_58 1:55:36

A real example is Barclays is usually a big part of uh where the money ends up with us. So you'd have to have like a chase or a Bank of America or these large institutions, they'd have to have some big problems. Like you're having those kind of problems, and you're not really probably all of us are not worried about our cash anymore. We're more focused on bullets and food and sure, you know, cigarettes.

SPEAKER_59 1:56:01

Those are what's worth money than that.

SPEAKER_25 1:56:03

Cigarettes become the uh the primary driver of economic success.

SPEAKER_59 1:56:07

That's what I was told. That's I was told that's how it works if it happens. Both in prison and the army, yes. Yeah, you probably can't.

SPEAKER_25 1:56:13

I mean, those are those are just currencies in those places, anyways.

SPEAKER_58 1:56:16

But I think that's how it works in during the apocalypse is it's probably just like the army. Yeah.

SPEAKER_59 1:56:21

So you probably know better than me what the value bullets and cigarettes.

SPEAKER_25 1:56:24

I love that. I love that. Well, Jess, you've provided a ton of value to me, to my audience, to the listeners. Is there anything that I can do to provide value to you and to your audience?

SPEAKER_58 1:56:34

I appreciate the invite. It's been awesome. I mean, I think um, you know, appreciate uh all the questions and the insight you've shared too. And love that you're giving back. Love that you're you know out there sharing what you've learned and but still in a mindset of like uh learning yourself. Oh, absolutely. Just like asking those questions to figure out what you can gather from it. So I appreciate what you share with me, have me on, and it's been it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_25 1:56:59

My uh one last mindset thought now because you mentioned the learning piece. Yeah. I identify like if everybody has an identity, my identity is a learner. Okay, and I I want to encourage everybody that's listening to adopt the identity of being a learner. Because if I get in an argument with you and I lose, I'm not defeated. I'm still learning that argument.

SPEAKER_60 1:57:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 1:57:24

If I start a business and I fail, I'm not a total failure. I'm just learning how to do that better still. Right. So in the sense of being a learner, I'm never defeated. And that's why I put such such an emphasis on that in my my personal life. So I'd like to encourage you all continuous learning. Identify the or adopt the identity of being a learner. And in that you'll never be defeated. You just keep growing. I love that. Absolutely. Where can uh people find you? So somebody's listening to this, they say, Man, that Jess guy is awesome. I want to reach out to him. I hope he coaches me. How can I get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_58 1:57:59

Get freedomflowing.com is uh my website, and then there's a few different things I do, and and that'll that'll get you there.

SPEAKER_25 1:58:08

Awesome. If somebody wants to find you on social media, can they find you anywhere on social media? You said you're not on there at time.

SPEAKER_58 1:58:13

Instagram is at real JessPhillips R E A L.

SPEAKER_25 1:58:18

And can we put that uh put those links on the comment everything below? Sweet. Thank you so much for sticking around. If you're still here, remember to like and subscribe. I know you all do it anyways. Thanks so much, Jess. Thanks, Parker. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_58 1:58:33

I think when you look at some of the really fun stories, it probably from your own career, when you think back, it's like of some of the biggest and best decisions you made. You'll probably find more of them came from like a gut instinct versus like, yeah, I was in the spreadsheet and the spreadsheet told me this and I did it. This data-driven decision is what made me here.

SPEAKER_25 1:58:51

My biggest failures in business were still data-driven decisions. Yes. When somebody invites me to do something and I don't want to do it, just to know, just to know. And it doesn't have to be complicated. I simplify that. So I like to use that as a guiding principle. But then I wrote uh a book a couple years ago called How the Hell Are You Doing This? And it was the principles that I learned through military and business that allowed me to build success in my organizations and with my relationships. And I said chapter five. It's titled, If it's not fun, I'm going home. And that's kind of my litmus now for if I'm gonna continue to do something.

SPEAKER_58 1:59:26

And when all of a sudden you drive home with a Lamborghini or you open the garage and there's one there, it's really hard to move the goalpost, Mike. Well, I have like it just slaps you across the face. You're like, I'm in a Lamborghini. Yeah. Like this happened. And somehow, I think in a healthy way, in that situation, in the version I'm telling that, that is really good for you.

SPEAKER_25 1:59:45

I often start these shows talking about a superpower and how awesome it is if we can harness and master that. But I'm here today with a special guest, Jess, and he was just sharing something that I think is a really important thought. A superpower that's overused becomes a weakness, perhaps a dependency and a vulnerability. Jess, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and why you think that.

SPEAKER_58 2:00:14

Well, I'm Jess Phillips. Um what I do, I'm an entrepreneur, definitely involved in a few different businesses. The main focus is freedom reserves, just a smart place to put capital, your cash reserves, higher yield, protect your capital, stay liquid. So that's that became pretty important to me after um an exit a couple of years ago and got really focused on you know, working hard to make all this money, and now how do I make sure I keep it and have it work for me? So that's the main focus that I that I'm on right now.

SPEAKER_25 2:00:45

Can I ask about the exit? You said an exit a few years ago. Yeah. What was that?

SPEAKER_58 2:00:49

Um it was a smaller construction company called uh Temporary Power Services, and we actually purchased the company um about 10 years ago. And when we purchased it, it was was doing about almost 300,000 in revenue, so really small. Been around for over 20 years, and uh the owner wanted to retire, so we bought it and slowly grew it over a few years. Um I was I served more of a board role, I would say. Sure. Uh wasn't there day to day. And um it's actually my old boss back in the day at Verizon that approached me about he'd seen some success that me and my other partner had, and said, Hey, would you guys you know join in on this if I had this opportunity to buy a company? So we did. And uh yeah, when we when we exited, we had grown it to over two million in in profit. And so it was, you know, quite a growth, but it was really steady for a few years and then it really popped once we added a new new vertical. So it was really interesting. Like the original business didn't isn't even what really made it valuable. It was really just kind of having that creative um mindset to like see where the other opportunities are, even it was just with existing clients and more services that they they wanted us to bring to the table.

SPEAKER_25 2:02:05

So I like that you mentioned uh bringing a new vertical to existing clients. This is something that I talk about often with guests on the show. A lot of people say they have a lead problem. But when I get involved with businesses, a lot of times it's not actually a lead problem, it's a revenue leak problem. Yeah. You're not doing something to optimize the lifetime value of the customers that you have existing. And so then it becomes this really cool equation or this problem set of how do we help you maximize that? And a lot of times, like you said, it's just a create, a new creative solution, something new that we can offer in line with what they already need. And I'm a big believer in if you provide a product or service, there's probably something adjacent to that or another pain point that that product or service leads to that just becomes a natural ascension for you.

SPEAKER_58 2:02:53

Yeah, I think this is why it's really great what you do, the consulting side of things. I do some of that as well. And someone I'm consulting right now. It's really, I don't know what it is, but it's like when you're in it, right? That's why you bring on a consultant or a coach or a mentor, whatever you want to call it. It seems to be the lowest hanging fruit that I always seem to identify if I'm on the outside. When I'm in it, I I don't see it, I don't see the same thing. It happens to me too. This was an example of that exact thing. Like this was something, you know, our operator, our main partner that I mentioned, you know, he was in the business and then he was the one that kind of brought up, hey, you know, this is something we're getting approached about. And it took, you know, somebody more on the board level or a mentor to go, hey, that's where the focus should be. Let's go look at that, let's explore that. And it can be disguised, right? This was more of a seasonal opportunity. So I think it was always kind of like, uh, well, that only really that that new protocol only really kicks in in the winter. They need ground thaw equipment, they need generators, they need, you know, temporary power and heating specifically in the winter. So I think it was always overlooked.

SPEAKER_18 2:03:54

Yeah, you think it's seasonal, so it maybe isn't worth the investment.

SPEAKER_58 2:03:57

Exactly. Oh, it's not all the time or whatever. Well, let's look into that further, and sure enough, we did, and that's what really took us, you know, to a place that we could we could really exit and be happy about it. So I see that a lot. I see that being a huge opportunity. I think when you're in the business, you're just so focused on that cycle of a new customer. This is what we offer. And it's a lot just to execute that, as we all know. I think sometimes having some outside help to help see a few of those other opportunities. That's that's been my experience that it usually comes from somebody on the outside kind of like raising their hands saying, Hey, are you are you looking at this?

SPEAKER_25 2:04:32

So tell us a little bit about the backstory here. You said that uh previous boss from Verizon reached out to you because of your success. What maybe led you into this position where you could buy a business? Um, what what were you doing before that? How did you get there?

SPEAKER_58 2:04:46

Yeah, um, we had all started, there was a there was three of us, and we started at Verizon Corporate, and uh I was in sales and my business partner was a big operator there. He'd been in charge of 5,000 employees. So when I met him and he approached me about starting a company, I was like, hey, this guy's dumb enough to start a company with me. I'm I'm in, right? This guy had all the success and experience and was just an incredible operator. So the the thing that I definitely took away was whatever we produced, whatever we sold, I knew he would make sure it got it got fulfilled. Okay. So that made me really excited. That was, you know, the salesperson in me. I think um the Achilles heel of the best salesperson is bad operations, right? So as long as you have integrity, right? Like if you if you're willing to just sell and say anything, it doesn't really matter. But I think, you know, we've had experiences in my life, I think most people have, where you're you're able to sell something, actually get momentum, and the miracle of the sale occurs, and then you outsell your operations, and then that just cripples you, right? It's just hard to continue to go into a home or a business and continue to tell them about this great product if it doesn't actually come to fruition.

SPEAKER_25 2:05:56

So I talk a lot about a concept called the Rainmaker Triad that was taught to me by one of my coaches, Mandy Keene. And she explains it's similar to like the business triumvirate, if you're familiar with that, that every Uber successful organization has three key players in it. You have the Rainmaker, who's maybe this charismatic individual. They go out, they get the sales, they drive the revenue. Then they typically have an engineer, someone who works the system, the back end, the fulfillment, make sure that things are operating in an efficient manner. It sounds like this uh original partnership. You're the rainmaker, he's the engineer. And then uh the third would be a creator or a creative, somebody who makes the product and the service very beautiful, well packaged, desirable, and palatable to the the audience and the customers. Would you say that when you went into this partnership then, that you uh were kind of fulfilling those roles? I mean, you covered each other's weaknesses then pretty well.

SPEAKER_58 2:06:53

Absolutely. Yeah, people always compla commented that we made made a great team. So we we started a company in 2010 um out of a garage and in the home improvement space. You know, I think our goal was let's be successful enough to quit our jobs um to you know be able to take maybe some Fridays off and a vacation or two when we want to. That was like kind of the ceiling I think we were all looking at. And uh we grew that specific company, I get, you know, a couple different ways you could quantify it. We had 260 employees at our peak. Oh, wow, in four states. Um and you know, usually we're at around 50 million in revenue per year. That's awesome. So Inc. 500, like four times in a row for fastest growing and entrepreneur of the year finalist and 40 under 40 and all those different things. So lots of fun there and lots of lots of stress, lots of all the other things that that come with that. So yeah, we were in the middle of growing that company when my original boss back from Verizon watched the two of us leave Verizon and go start, go start this other company and have some success. So he said, Hey, would you guys, you know, help me purchase this company and basically be on my board and help me help me grow this thing? So that it was awesome because it created other opportunities, right? When you're having success like that. And um, you know, he he gave us a great option to come in and and uh help him get that started. So it worked really well. Um, it was fun because the last couple of years of that smaller construction company, uh, it was you know taking off, it was doing well. I kind of was like, hey, I I think it's time that you should buy us out. You should buy, you know, the main operator. I told Chris is his name. You should buy us out at this point. Not that like we needed the money right then or anything. It was more out of like, hey, out of honor for you, you're the main person running this. You should buy us out now because it's a it's it's really growing. Yeah, we're just gonna keep going up. Yeah, it's about to, you know, in a year or two, you're gonna cash out. You should buy us out now because that's the right thing. And you know, how awesome he is. He's just like, no, like I'm gonna, you're gonna come and finish this off with me. You're gonna you're gonna get what you deserve. And it's also, you know, and he reminded me of all the things we had done early on when it was small, and you know, we'd share office space or you know, do some rent, rent, free months of rent and different things like that. So it's awesome to have partners like that. It's really hard to find those, how you see people behave when lowest lows and highest highs, and can definitely count of one hand how many of those guys I have in my life. But when you have partners like that, you go through those different things. I mean, those are the type of people you're looking to be in partnership with, and I value that more than anything else now. More than the opportunity, more the money, more than anything else. It's who are they? Can I trust them? Am I gonna have fun with them?

SPEAKER_25 2:09:32

So I've talked a few times on the show about the concept of the who versus the what. And a lot of times your growth is just a partnership away from being uber successful. Would you say, or I guess what advice would you have for somebody if they're starting a business, how do they find the right partner? Yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_58 2:09:53

I think if you if you can find a way to obviously the interview is great, but I think it's more important to interview other people that have worked for them, worked with them, worked around them. And to me, if you can find a way, and it's not it's not always possible, but if you can find a way to find out how did this person behave, like my existing partner right now on Freedom Reserves, I was around him when we had a finance company together, and it was going well, and then it slowed down, like most businesses do. They go through ups and downs. Yep. There was a moment where it was like, hey, if we want to keep the company going, we probably need to take out home equity lines from our houses. Like it was at that place, right? That's a pretty serious place. It's a pretty big decision, and we're all looking around the conference room table going, Do you have any equity? Do you have any equity? So I gotta see how he behaved, treated me, treated the business, treated himself, all the employees when it was not doing well. And then I gotta see, you know, how he behaved when you know the company's you know, doing 2.7 billion during the total life of the company and gotta see how he behaved through that success, and it was the same person. So that's huge for me because now I know no matter what we go through business, you know, consistently are we gonna close this down, are we gonna put it all on the table and do it and go ahead and go forward? And then how do they actually behave when all the money shows up? Because it's interesting, some people behave differently in um different circumstances. So usually how they behave in the the bad times is also how they might behave in the very great times, like and you want to have some some major trust in both those situations. So if you can find a way to find out how they've behaved in those two scenarios from people they've worked around, or if you've had your own experience, like that's really what I look at now.

SPEAKER_25 2:11:39

Okay, so I'm I'm curious too about your maybe background before you got into entrepreneurship a little bit, because you said um Guy Verizon, if he's crazy enough to take a chance on you, like you're in, you're going in. So you already had a very high level of trust in him, yeah, but also probably in yourself that you were willing to jump. The corporate ship and go into business for yourself. What maybe led you to having that mentality or that willingness, that confidence in yourself to do that?

SPEAKER_58 2:12:09

Well, it's interesting because before I had the confidence, I didn't. I I really lost it. Um, you know, I think we all go through ups and downs in life and get get the legs taken out from underneath us and think we're doing great. Usually it comes when you're younger and a little more arrogant and uh overvalue your success. And so I I had a story like many when the economy crashed, it hit me pretty hard. But I was I was young. I had just gotten married and new baby and started my first real business, a kiosk in the mall, a teeth whitening kiosk. Right on. First month it made three grand in profit. So I was looking at Lamborghinis and Ferraris, and you know, you if you remember when you're 23, brand new married, you're like, hey, $3,000 for me at 23. I thought I was on top of the world. Absolutely. So did I. So um, and it was the first month. So it's like, okay, what are we gonna do next month? And then within a couple months, the you know, the economy crashed. And to be honest, I remember thinking, like, what does that word economy really even mean? Like, why are all the adults so scared? Like they're really nervous right now. And so, you know, that hit me pretty hard because I didn't have an education or anything to fall back on. So um, I went to to work, got a job in corporate America. That's what everybody told me to do. So it was good for me to go work at a big company um like Verizon. And um, I was super hungry. Like I I was blown away that I was in an air-conditioned building where people were waiting to buy something from me. So I just went crazy. Like I didn't, I remember I got called into the office by the manager, and um, you know, I'm used to a sales world where they're like praising you for working hard, working extra hours, not taking lunches. And then he was like, Hey, you're you know, you know, your numbers are incredible. Like I was like one of the best in the whole country. It was just because I was so hungry to make money and catch up, pay the bills for the family, right? So I'm thinking he's congratulating me, which he started that way, but then he's like, No, I'm I'm also like writing you up because you're not taking lunches. You're not you're like, you don't even take bathroom breaks. I thought he was praising me for that. Like, hey, you're not taking lunches. I need you to do this, you know. I'm like, no, you don't really want me to take a lunch, right? There's people waiting to buy. And so that was my first experience with HR and getting ridden up for like not taking a lunch.

SPEAKER_25 2:14:23

How much how dare you work too much?

SPEAKER_58 2:14:25

Yeah. So, you know, corporate America was good for me to take the rough edges off of me a little bit, learn some of that. Sure. Definitely prepared me for, you know, having a business, a bigger company with lots of employees. I think from an HR standpoint, it was really good for me to learn some of those lessons, right? And how to behave in those situations. But but yeah, I I think um I regained my confidence by going into a sales field like that, and where everything's very measured, and there's thousands of sales reps across the country, and I got to see my numbers kind of stack up against other salespeople. And that helped restore a lot of confidence because I remember before that I had gotten so low thinking I had failed a business, right? And and thinking like, I remember I was like, I'm gonna be a school teacher, like that's the solution, which there's nothing against being a school teacher, but for someone who's an entrepreneur mindset person, like I would have been playing small for for me, right because my mindset wasn't about what normal I think school teachers are motivated by. To me, it was that'll be really safe. I'll get a salary, they'll have benefits. Like I can, you know, the summers are off. Yeah, my family will be taken care of. Exactly. And so to me, it was that was all small thinking. That was playing scared. And that's how low I was just before that. And then was able to go, you know, just go and actually have to hustle, right? Be forced to hustle hard. And you know, some of those numbers start to add up, and you start to see it, and you're like, maybe I'm actually good at communicating, selling, you know, these things. So that helped me get get my confidence back up. And then having an operator like like Trent, you know, he was the one that was in charge of 5,000 employees at Verizon and approach me about, hey, let's you want to start a company with me. Yeah, climb the corporate ladder. Uh so for me, I was like, I'm gonna climb the climb the corporate ladder as well. And then he's like, Hey, I've done it. I'm already up here 10 years of my life. He was up there and he's like, I'm I'm leaving. So I'm like, well, maybe I don't want to climb the ladder.

SPEAKER_21 2:16:22

Yeah, if he's willing to jump ship after achieving that, and maybe it makes you consider that.

SPEAKER_58 2:16:27

I'm like, geez, maybe I'll skip that's that part of my life and follow him. So it was humbling that he approached me about like starting a business with him. I think that gave me some confidence as well. And then when you have a partner that you have that much confidence in, it just helps you be that much more confident. Oh, absolutely. So I think one of the other, you know, things that that I'm good at is I really see the the value that other people bring and I know how to like broadcast that and communicate that to the clients.

SPEAKER_25 2:16:53

Let me ask so freedom reserves. Yeah. Very different business than construction and home improvement, and very different than Verizon. Yeah. You mentioned that you you kind of got into that because you wanted to preserve the wealth that you already had, but how did you maybe learn about the need for that service? Like what drove that into your mind as like this is something that one, I need for me, two, the community at large needs, and you could create a business that would provide that.

SPEAKER_58 2:17:26

Yeah, and we had the exit in 2023. Um, you know, it was it was a great chunk of money. Some people might be like, oh, that was nothing, or some people might be like that's incredible. I'm done for life. To me, it was it was enough to like, you know, not not worry about my paycheck next week, but not enough to just sail away into the sunset, right? Forever. Sure. So I felt like, gosh, there's so much I've done to get to this point, finally have a chunk of money. Like I want to be really responsible with it. And so I just got I had time on my hands for the first time where it wasn't like a million different things going on with a million different companies or whatever. And sure. And so I got really focused on like, how do I make this money really work for me? I'm finally on the right side of interest, like you we all want to be. We're told like that's the where you want to be. And so, how do I do this? How do I make this really go to work for me in a smart way? So um, that's where I got focused. And after a couple of years of exploring different things, I think there was a couple of different emotions that came up. One, there's new doors opened up when you have a certain net worth, or you know, obviously there's accredited investors, and then there's your net worth and things, and there's some investments that open up to you that like you don't get without a certain amount of money. And I thought that was interesting because part of me was excited, like, oh, I'm in the club, right? Like I can I can get access to some of this stuff. And part of me was really frustrated because it was like, geez, the people that need these type of instruments, these type of investment opportunities are you know, people that they could use them a little earlier in the in their career, I think. And so I kind of got on this quest of like, let's figure out a how would we want to design investments that would work for me, would work for me as an entrepreneur, specifically when I was running a business and you have some cash reserves and you don't want to lock them up or invest them long term, yeah, but you still want to make some sort of meaningful interest on it that can they can contribute to the to the company and to where you're headed.

SPEAKER_25 2:19:22

That's awesome. I I think that this is an area, especially where a lot of entrepreneurs don't necessarily go through a traditional education. They don't they don't work in um you know a business school, they don't get the financial piece, they learn it on the fly as they go, but then you inherently will have these knowledge gaps where you're not thinking about all those things. So I mean, that was something that I had to learn it on the go. Um, because I started my business while I was still doing my undergrad. I didn't have uh a family background. I mean, we were we were very poor growing up, so I joined the army as like my escape from poverty. Sure. And then like 23 years old, I'm making 30 grand a year and I think I'm a king. Totally. Uh you know, really, really funny in hindsight. Um, but then I'm starting a business, I'm trying to learn those. I was at least I was going to UVU, so I was getting some exposure, but it was, you know, over the course of four years, not immediate when I needed it.

SPEAKER_35 2:20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 2:20:29

I'm just thinking that that's a very valuable service and not just um as as a resource to say, hey, I need help with this and push it off, but to also say, like, you're working with somebody that you're learning from as you go. You're starting to understand a little bit more of how finances and investing and yeah, all of that works uh cumulatively across the board.

SPEAKER_58 2:20:54

Yeah, some things that why that even happened for me, because I totally relate to no education. That was not my background. My dad was a mailman. Um, it's kind of funny. He actually delivered mail to our own house. So he'd stop and have his lunch break when he delivered mail for a lot some of his career. And my mom would work part-time as the food critic for like the desert news standard examiner and stuff like that. That's cool. So the times we would get to go out to eat would be like we get a free meal at like some new restaurant that opens so she could do a story on it, right? So, yeah, I relate to a lot of what you said there. Um, so I think where I started to learn the money side of things, two opportunities. One was when we had the home improvement company, uh local billionaire in Utah was one of our clients for like six years. So I was in his office every couple weeks or around him or on his jet sometimes. Um, I remember the first time he invited, like, oh well, let's go down to Arizona. I'm on this thing, and like, well, it's tomorrow. I'm like, you know, my brain's like, I gotta buy a plane tank. He's like, Oh, just jump on the jet with me, you know. So it's kind of interesting to see how a billionaire does business a little differently.

SPEAKER_61 2:22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 2:22:00

Um, both from like jump on a jet, but also more how their brain works with money, you know, and it was incredible to see the way he looked at capital and as just like a resource versus like something to I would constantly stress about, right? And it just I had a scarcity mindset around it for sure. So I think I think being mentored by a billionaire for about six years was a pretty important thing for me in my career. That's a unique opportunity. I think that's the thing I'd brag about all day, is like somehow I've been able to get around some incredible people that I've learned from. So the other one was my business partner on the a finance company we started along the way with with being in solar, that was our home improvement company. You know, we did uh real Salt Lakes uh solar system, Adobe here in Utah, um, and a ton of other commercial buildings, and we were in four states for residential as well. Um, but we needed a way for people to pay for it. I remember the first lesson somebody taught me. We hired a coach when we were brand new in solar, and I mean nobody was doing solar in 2010. And so he told us, look, I'm gonna teach you a bunch of stuff about it. But the only thing that really matters is if you can't show them how to pay for it, nothing else matters. Yeah. I think that's the case for a lot of things, especially higher ticket stuff. And so we needed financing. So we're famous for creating the first solar loan in the nation. So our finance company um was never the biggest, but it, you know, three billion actually doesn't make it's pretty small for that industry. Oh, that's crazy to think about.

SPEAKER_25 2:23:37

Yeah. So well, I mean, I guess you got sunrun down the road.

SPEAKER_58 2:23:40

Yeah. Yeah, but we were, you know, did create the first one that was an actual loan. And so um, so being on the board of that company just as a co-founder, and and you know, again, I had a partner that ran that one focused, and that's who my partner is today on Freedom Reserves. But, you know, his background was in wealth management before that. And then he was a he was the CEO of that finance company for you know 12 or 13 years. So um, we kind of got the band back together and uh did Freedom Reserves, and that's who I learned a lot from as well. Somebody that's got the formal education, someone who's built multiple companies in that industry in finance and um, you know, real estate investing, all of it. So um it's great to, I'm just a big believer in having having great partners, and it really just brings out you know, your superpowers and they have some that usually compliment compliment the superpowers you have.

SPEAKER_25 2:24:32

I love that. You you talked about the mentorship piece, and that's something that I say often is if I could go back and do it again, I would find and latch on to mentors quicker, faster. I would invest in myself and in those that those relationships more. I I was very guilty of I had a a small office in a warehouse, and uh like I would literally just sit there, I'd stay in the office till like 7, 8 p.m. at night to like make phone calls to manufacturers and distributors and things like that. Like and I would just tunnel vision on the work. And I didn't realize, and it's so dumb in hindsight. Like I should have just seen if I would have just asked for help or reached out to some people that maybe I had known previously, hey, what did you do in this situation? Or how did you overcome XYZ or have you ever struggled with this before? Like you could ask those questions and shortcut the learning experience. Um yeah. But I I fixated on it and it was such a pain point for me. If I could have gone back, if I could go get mentors earlier, faster, invest in that, that would have, I think, shortcutted my my uh pains exponentially. Uh I also I really like how you I mean, you're talking about getting on a jet with a billionaire, and he's maybe the initial exposure to how someone with wealth is actually thinking about using leveraging money. Holy smokes. I mean, the I think that that's a testament to the the relationship being maximally valuable. If we can go find mentors and partners who are already doing what we want to do, who already have the experience or who have succeeded in that realm that we want to aspire to be like, that's probably where the most valuable relationships are. I mean, coaches these days are a dime a dozen, right? You find them uh on every every corner in business. But the reality is the vast majority of them never built anything of value. And so I always just recommend like if you if you want to achieve something, find somebody who's already achieved that and go learn from them.

SPEAKER_58 2:26:36

Yeah, I think you know, I do some coaching now. I try to just keep a couple of clients at a time. I want to keep it in the fun zone. And uh, I like that the fun zone. That's where it's fun for me. It's like fantasy football. Like once you have more than two teams, you ruin it. So that's the way I look at it. Um and I I just I got I I've been asked, like, yeah, what what would you do differently going back? And usually the first answer is what you said. It's the same thing. Like, I never had a coach, I never had a consultant. I had great partners that always had great experience around me. But so I did get I did get mentorship there, but never a formal or even informal, like mentor. And I just didn't know the value of that. I think part of it that my excuse was I was in a new industry. So the excuse I made was, and I think a lot of people can relate to this was well, they won't know my business, they won't understand my business. And you know, both of us I know sit here and laugh about that now. It's like it doesn't matter what the product is or the business, it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_25 2:27:36

Yeah, you you just have to identify what the route is that you need help with. Yeah, like is it sales, is it offers, is it?

SPEAKER_58 2:27:41

I think I just told myself, well, it's solar, no one's done this. It's you know, this was before everybody was, you know, doing it. This was 2010 we started, like nobody was doing it. You know, in Utah that we were the second company, third company here, and by 2016 there was 120 companies. So wow. So I think I always thought, well, when I talk to people, they don't really understand my business. And like 95% of it does not matter what your product is.

SPEAKER_21 2:28:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 2:28:06

If you have the right mentor, it's the system is the same, it applies to all of it. So so I think because at the end of the day, a good coach or mentor is just gonna help ask you the right questions, maybe point out a few things that maybe you're not seeing. And that it's all within you at that point. Like you really do have most of the answers within you. You just need somebody to help extract those from you.

SPEAKER_25 2:28:26

I love that. It's it's kind of funny. Someone was telling me um that regardless of how we actually view our coaching, it's 95% cheerleading because they have the answer already. They just aren't seeing it. Or they're fixating on one aspect of the problem and not looking at the holistic picture, and they just need that third party perspective, maybe, to say, hey, look, you're missing this piece of information, but it's right here, you can see it. And they just got to go get it, merge the two worlds, and they have their solution, they can move on. But it's just helping somebody understand how to work through a problem that maybe they are not familiar with. I got my first coach. So I I started my first business in 2016. I got my first coach, I think, in maybe 2020. It was COVID happened, I had a little bit of extra disposable income. And I think I invested in uh Tanner Chidster's uh elite CEOs program, and that was my first foray into coaching. Uh since then, I I got into Akbar Sheikh's um program. And uh in 2024, I joined Russell Brunson's inner circle. And each one of those programs, it's kind of like the step up the coaching ladder to like the higher level, maybe mentor, unlocked something new for me with my business, where maybe Tanner's initial initially helped me structure a little bit of a more refined offer set for myself that I could uh present in a cleaner way. So he helped me tidy up. And then Akbar helps me see, hey, dude, you've got these whole other opportunities that you're you have a background in, you know, military leadership that you're you're an expert on, and you're just underselling yourself. Let's let's work on your positioning. And that opened up a whole bunch of new doorways for me. Then I get into Russell's world and it's dude, you're you're not charging nearly enough. You need to be working with these corporate partners, like, but it just took a I always had those abilities, right? Nothing inherently changed about me. I I I had the undergrad, I had the MBA, I had the leadership experience, I had the the business already built behind me. I just needed a different coach at each one of those points to maybe show me what was possible. So I'm a I'm a big believer, and if you can find that coach, that mentor, yeah, invest in that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean it just sets you up for success. So okay, freedom reserves. I also understand, oh sorry, man. So many thoughts. You you had a lot of good stuff set up. Yeah. How do you get into those circles with those mentors? We're both in supercar communities now. Yeah. That was a huge one for me to elevate my mindset. So I bought my first uh supercar. It was a 2016 Porsche GT3RS. I got it back in 2020. And then on I went to Cars and Coffee the next Saturday. Nine-day experience. Previously, I was just nah, whatever, some dude with his Ford Focus ST. And then you show up with uh the GT3RS. And back then nobody had those out here. All of a sudden, everyone wanted to talk to me at Cars and Coffee. Everyone wanted to know who I was and what I did and how I did it and if I could teach them or help them or coach them. I'm like, okay, there's something to this. It's not just a car. This is a vehicle for networking and relationship building. Yeah. And now we get into to groups like Fast Lane Drive and and Club Paddock, where you have this awesome network of business owners, high-level sales guys, entrepreneurs, and and all of them has a different experience, a different maybe selection of knowledge that they've learned or that they've worked through. And I think if you get into a group like that, the networking opportunities and the amount of information that you can just learn by being in proximity to these people, like being in proximity to the billionaire on the jet, right, that can be life-changing. So I'm I I mean, I'm even a big believer in get the dream car, go join those groups because the deals that come after that and the relationships that you build, they're out of this world. They pay for themselves. I mean, that's my experience. What have you had in that world?

SPEAKER_58 2:32:38

Yeah, I I relate to a lot of what you said. I think, you know, I got an exotic carb first because of something I wanted from me. And I think that was important for me to do it. I think my brain sometimes in the past might have done things to skip steps or look a certain way. And I think um, you know, I wanted to make sure the foundational reason was like this is something I want to enjoy. And it and it really was. I think there's something I I think I a lot of my fiance, I've had to try to explain it to her. And I'm like, I think a lot of the car thing, what it is, is at some point as a little boy, we like saw some really amazing car, and there was something about that's our dream. And so when we have the opportunity to finally live that dream, I think we're entrepreneurs, we're really good at moving the goalposts on ourselves in an unhealthy way. Oh, I agree. And when all of a sudden you drive home with a Lamborghini or you open the garage and there's one there, it's really hard to move the goalposts. Like, well, I have like it just slaps you across the face. You're like, I'm in a Lamborghini. Yeah. Like this happened. And somehow, I think in a healthy way, in that situation, in the version I'm telling that, that is really good for you. It's like it really is validating, like you did something really hard. Something as a child, teenager, you thought would be like incredible. Panical. Yep. Because I think we do things like like We look at if I can just own a home and build a family. Wow. And you do it. And then you're just like, cool, that's great. Move on. And so I think it may it stops you. It stops you and makes you smell the roses a little bit and go, like, hey, I did something that I thought very few people can do. And it helps you really validate yourself in a healthy way. That's what it did for me. Um, it was undeniable. Like, dude, this is a real, this is really cool. This is a real thing. Yeah. I also like joke that I, and it's it's true, like I was a big car person as a teenager, and um I always joke that like I promised God, if like I got a really cool car that I would share it with everybody. Cause like I felt like all my friends would like have random strippers pick them up and give them rides and they didn't even know what the cars were. And I'm like, why doesn't this happen to me? So if I get a cool car, I'm gonna share it with everybody. So I love it. I had some of those experiences. Like I had one the other day where like this probably six or seven-year-old just comes like running up to the car as soon as I park it, and like he's with his dad. I mean, I'm like, yeah, you can go ahead and send it. And it's like he was about to start crying, like he was emotional about it. So it kind of threw me off a little bit, like you said, where I was like, gosh, I better have some good answers to all these questions because apparently they are this could be their moment right now of like that inspires them. So the car thing's interesting to me. I think it's um a little unfair. I think it's a little bit like uh you almost get too much trust by driving, you know, having a cool car, exotic car. I think there's plenty of people like anything that abuse it, maybe stretch themselves to buy one and just so they just for the pure like, oh, then I can network or whatever. I think I think it does drop down to your point. Like, I think it does help some of those barriers for some people that are successful. Like, okay, yeah, I can trust, for example, I can trust you with my money because I can tell you you've made some money and you're you at least have paid some sort of level of sacrifice. Like I have you paid a similar price that I have. So I relate to that. So I really love the communities that um, you know, surprise how many great people have had success and are in the exotic car world. Um, I think we all on the outside are a little jealous and are like, oh, they're probably all jerks. And then you get in there and actually realize that a lot of them none of them are jerks. Like there's at least the the groups I'm around, like really cool people that that have like mine and just want to give back and have paid the price for their success for sure, and and uh have the wounds and and and the humility around it. And uh they're just trying to most of them are just fulfilling that childhood dream as well. And and so I think I agree, like I think there's some really cool um side benefits that have come from that of like it's definitely opened some new doors and some great conversations, and um it's been really fun for me.

SPEAKER_43 2:36:43

Okay. Couple points.

SPEAKER_25 2:36:47

Awesome. Inspiring others and giving back. That is hands down the best part of supercar ownership for me. We we uh, you know, just last week with Fastlane, we went and did that make a wish. Yeah. Awesome experience. Um tomorrow, I'm gonna I'll post it in Fastlane again right after this, actually. Tomorrow we're going to do a kid's birthday party. So, like me and Jod and Braden are gonna go drive down. I'm gonna have my my Bart's gonna take one of my Lambos, I'm gonna have my VA take another one of the Lambos. We're gonna just take a bunch of cars down to Riverside Park for this kid's like sixth birthday. Like just gonna be blown away. Just to blow them away. Uh but that stuff is awesome because, like you said, you never know if that's what's that's the moment that's gonna inspire this kid or help them understand what is or isn't possible in the world and maybe they can achieve more than they thought they could achieve.

SPEAKER_58 2:37:37

Yeah, I wanna I I saw this post and it was somebody that got a Lamborghini and they were talking to a friend, like, I'm not gonna post about this. I'm not a big social media poster myself, so I'm not for better or worse, like I just I'm not, but and um, but but he was saying, like, I don't think I'm gonna post about me getting my first exotic car. And the guy's like, People are some people are just in the wrong time timeline on seeing your success. But most of us, there's what life is hard enough as it is. Yeah, most of us are looking for inspiration, especially from somebody we actually maybe grew up with or somebody we know or someone we can relate to. I think there's so much, ooh, look at the success that some distant person has that. I mean, social media is just definitely full of like the best version of everybody's lives, right? Or even the fake version of their lives. But it's like, hey, I went to high school with that guy. Like, I grew up with that same person, and they're having some level of success that's inspiring inspiring to use to most people. Yeah. I've had plenty of people, this weird, awkward moment of like they see my car or whatever, and it's just weird. Like they're just kind of quiet. And it's like, even if just seeing a Lamborghini or something, right? You should you normally just get a little excited or you're seeing one, but like you're like really reserved. It's like there's something going on for them, but it really doesn't have a lot to do with you. It just might be bad timing for them. They might be in some situation where they're not believing themselves or they, you know, are jealous, whatever it is, like you don't have to take that personal. There's definitely been some weird moments like that have been in interesting. And then it's really cool to see some people that are just so excited and inspired. Absolutely. And I think it's not up to us to, you know, decide for them, like just give the opportunity for people to be inspired. And if it if it works for them and they want to try that on and it's positive for them, great. If if it's not, it just usually says more about where they're at and their timeline and their process.

SPEAKER_25 2:39:27

Absolutely. Uh, you also brought up how superbar or supercar, super bar, supercar. Supercar owners are often a lot more relatable and they want to give back in a lot of situations. You know, I lost all of my, I shouldn't say all of my, I lost a lot of my friends when I went into entrepreneurship because they just couldn't relate anymore. And instead of taking Fridays off and going snowboarding or going out late on the weekends, I was just in the lab, locked in, trying to grow this business and find a way to provide for my family. So I lost those relationships. And getting into the supercar community a little bit allowed me to make friends with people that could understand that struggle. Like you said, maybe there's that level of uh they they understand because they went through it too. Like a common humanity. Yeah. Uh and not only, you know, make friends with these awesome people who could relate then too, but everyone wants to help you succeed. I I mean, like uh I I work with uh Dave Reichert now, right? And that dude just wants to see people have financial success. And I I, you know, really admire like Raul guy gets I I I was doing a mastermind event a couple months back, and he's like, Yeah, uh come up at Fast Lane, we're gonna have you get in front of everybody, just you know, pitch your event, uh, let them all know that you're doing this. Like, we want to help you eat too. I'm like, how cool is that? That these guys all just want to look out for each other and they want to help you. And you know, I so a lot of my my closest friends now came from getting into those communities and those circles where people just want to help each other grow. That's that's invaluable to me. So I love that. And I I loved um when when you said, hey, yeah, I'll come, I'll come do the podcast. I start looking into okay, who's Jess? Why don't I I don't really know him, but let's let's uh do the look. And I saw you're involved at Club Paddock, and I'm like, that's one of my favorite places in the world, man. Yeah. I love the events, I love the people. Like Hondo is somebody that I I really, really look up to. Um I've told him, I said, look, I'm not trying to kiss your ass or anything like that, but when I I look at the grand scheme of people who have achieved a high level of success and you know what what you've been able to accomplish in your life, that's that's something that I want to learn from. I want to be in proximity to you so I can learn from you.

SPEAKER_58 2:41:51

Yeah, I'm a big fan of paddock enough that uh I had an opportunity he approached about you know investing in the expansion. So that's how much I love it. Um can you give us any updates on that? It's like uh it's like yeah, uh um finally finally got permitting, which was what we were waiting on. And so there's gonna be like a red light bed and massage chairs. That's awesome. Speakeasy, like secret door into this poker table, and you can have 20 your friends in there and um, you know, have the game on, whatever you want, a couple more conference rooms. Um very cool. Already have the golf sim in the kitchen, and we've done date nights, like group date nights there on like Friday night, and just have our friends come there and hang out. So love Club Paddock. Um, huge fan. And uh, you know, I think Paddock is a a really good example of you attract who you are. And it starts with Hondo, the founder, and he's just attractor to people like like himself, right? People that want to give back, people that have paid the price for success. Um, and uh one of the things I love about when you start to get some momentum is you can really just it can really build on itself. If you've got the right core principles down, maybe going back to the coaching mentor thing, sometimes you don't even realize what you have going for you until you have someone that says, like, that's that's amazing, right there. Keep doubling down on that. That's your superpower. Do that. And and so what I like, for example, the doors that open up as you start to get momentum. I think when you're starting out, it's so hard, right? There's so many things up against you. But it's like that compound effect that's like the water pump. You're just you know pumping the water and it you don't see anything coming out, and then eventually it just starts flowing, right? So, for example, like we we were able to build a house in Costa Rica that we were gonna take Hondo and and his wife, and we all get along really well, and a couple other awesome couples, and we're gonna have a great time. But just again, like I'm sure residual effect will be some cool ideas or business opportunities or whatever that comes from that. Yeah, you kind of get a mastermind going in there. Yeah, it's like I just thought of that right now while we're sitting here. Like, I'm today I was thinking about all the fun stuff we're gonna do. I'm like, we're probably gonna have these great conversations or more opportunities. So that's what I found is like you can start getting momentum and you can start, you know, get over the hump. You it's amazing. Like it won't always be that hard. Yeah. It won't always be, you know, the grinds like, gosh, I finally got a customer. My gosh, that took like six months or whatever it is. Like it won't, it won't always be that hard. The compound effect will kick in and eventually you'll have that spill over and then it will just flow.

SPEAKER_25 2:44:31

I like the uh you talked about how it compounds over time. I'm a big believer in just simplifying the process. You you gave the example of like you're pumping, yeah, then the water comes. Simplify your process, let it compound with action over time. And in this kind of situation, it's just network, talk to people, build relationships, partnerships.

SPEAKER_58 2:44:52

Yeah, I feel like you know, part of my story is the big company, the biggest company I had from a revenue and um that I was running myself as a CEO. You know, at our peak was like I said, 260 employees. It didn't end how I wanted it to. COVID happened and essentially like took us out, right? It it did get sold off, and but it didn't leave leave me in a good financial spot. And then eventually, you know, I had to rebuild myself in every way and uh emotionally, spiritually, everything ended up getting divorced and and uh you know, so even relationship-wise, it really took a toll on me. But it was the best thing that happened to me was going through that process, and you know, that as you as you as I rebuilt with a stronger foundation, you know, now I think I can really um I I feel like I had a lot of success in one way, which was just like really just grinding it out and and uh you know maybe just working harder, not smarter, type of stuff without a mentor, without a coach. And then I feel like the second round where I had to really find out who I was, what my superpowers were, and be a little smarter, a little more strategic about how I did it. Um and then be motivated by the right things. Because I think I went through the I think I went through the process of like on paper, I had all the success you could hope for. You know, from financial to to just like being recognized. Um it was just my identity, you know, that's who people knew me as. But it was I think at the end of the day, like I I knew I wasn't really happy. And it almost created more shame and guilt because like I did the thing. I got here. I have the money and the cars and salary and the business and like not really happy. So the only other thing to do is like keep chasing more, but that didn't feel right either. So I'm really grateful that I went through that process to start over and and to uh realign with like how to have success, but do it in a way that's like healthy, adds to my life and uh doesn't take doesn't take me and my relationships out.

SPEAKER_25 2:47:13

I'm curious, a couple things that I want to talk about. Um, but you mentioned the resiliency piece. And I think a lot of it's easy for somebody who's maybe in entrepreneurship, business ownership to really down on yourself because you're in that position where the responsibility all actually ultimately let rests with you. The ownership rests with you. Um what what were your maybe you talked about rebuilding yourself. What were your tips or what what helped you be successful in overcoming that that period of your life and building yourself back into a position where you could continue to grow and succeed?

SPEAKER_58 2:47:52

Um I think that you know, honesty at the end of the day was the most important thing. Like just getting 90% honest was but not 100% would really hold me back. Like, what's you know, where am I really at? Like just some of the bad habits you learn over time and just being so worried about what other people think about you and like really understanding what that actually means. Finally letting it aside, let other people see where you're really at. Um and yeah, I think I think just the honesty, like, what are my values? Who am I really? So I don't think I really knew who I was. I think I was always working for to please somebody else my whole life. Gotcha. So I think going through that process, doing a ton of therapy, books, all that stuff. Um one of the things I uncovered was childhood stuff, right? Where I was so motivated. I think most men can relate to like the drive it's instinctual to provide. I think that's good and healthy. And we have that. I think mine was supercharged and unhealthy to the point of unhealthy, being unhealthy um way of being driven, because you know, at a young age, I remember my mom just being so stressed about money, and and I could she would talk to herself driving in the car. And I forgot about this whole experience until I was, you know, in some therapeutic session with other guys, and we're going through this process called the family sculpt. And I'm like, gosh, this is what I remember. My mom driving the car, just being talking to herself, being stressed about money. My dad's working graveyards. I'm the oldest kid, probably five or six years old, going to daycare. Yeah. Um, three younger siblings. And I remember this daycare was like pretty sketchy, pretty dangerous. Like, I just remember there's this other kid named Jessup that would bite kids. And I was like so worried. Like, my goal was to try to keep me and my siblings safe one more day without getting bitten by Jessup. So, um, and whatever else would come. But it was it was scary. Like, I you could almost tell my mom was even a little nervous to drop us off, and that's when I knew, like, like it's not not the best place to go. So I didn't know what money was, but I just knew if we had it, everything would be okay. Like my mom needed more money so that we wouldn't have to go to this sketchy daycare, so she wouldn't have to work as much, so my dad wouldn't have to work at night. So if I could figure out how to get this money thing solved, I'll get loved and I'll receive happiness and everything will be good. So I think at a young age, like I was like, I gotta figure out how to do that thing. So, you know, I remember my mom would take me to the grocery outlet and we'd buy candy, and like I'd have a candy store. Like that was my first little entrepreneurial experience, right? At like six or something, like just selling candy bars, right? And I usually would probably eat most of the profits like most kids would, but that was my first experience. But just always having like a job at a young age, newspaper route, then working at Lagoon at 14, stuff like that. So I've always been driven that way, but I think it was at an unhealthy level because of you know, childhood experience being so driven. Like I'll receive everything I need, and my life will be great if I make enough money. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. I think society helps push that narrative. I think uh a healthy instinct in men is to provide, but I think we we get really overly focused on that. And that's what happened to me at least. I was overly focused on that. And so when I did start, when I had made the money and had all the things, yeah, I was sitting there going, what's wrong? I thought if I got here, everything would be great. So I think the best thing that happened to me was I lost basically all of it. And I was borderline bankrupt in every way. And so rebuilding from that was the best thing that happened for me.

SPEAKER_25 2:51:22

That's curious. I, you know, I think a similar hunger perhaps. Uh, you know, we grew up very poor. Um we we lived in the first subdivision in Eagle Mountain, uh, city center. It was, you know, that 35 houses or whatever, and it was still Lehigh type thing, like bust into Lehigh to go to school.

SPEAKER_43 2:51:45

Um and I didn't realize how poor we were because everyone out there was poor.

SPEAKER_25 2:51:54

So it was it was like maybe high school by the time I realized, oh my gosh, we just don't have there's this thing called money and we don't have it, but everybody else's got some. And it it I don't know, it left me with this this hunger. Like I can remember I I got scholarship to play like little league football and things like that, because otherwise it just wouldn't happen. Um but it left me with this desire that it was like I needed to go earn. I needed to to to find a way to make some money so I could have a better life for myself. And and uh at the time I didn't know it. Uh my dad actually had told me this past year we were uh flying out to a Bronco game, we're sitting in the Delta Lounge, and he said he says, Hey, uh, you know, uh I can't remember what we were talking about, but he's like, Look, you've achieved uh a level of financial success that I will never achieve, can't even fathom as possible type thing. He's like, I raised uh the six of us, I'm the oldest of six, but he's like, I raised the six kids on on $35,000 a year. And I'm like, holy smokes, man, like I make $35,000 a week, you know, like you know, um but in hindsight it was that going without and seeing that if I could just find a way to, like you said, solve that problem, then I could get love, I could get respect, I could get the things that I wanted. And so for me, that solution was originally like I'm gonna join the army. And I'm there was a huge step up in my quality of life immediately. Where because you know, if my dad's making $35,000 a year raising six of us, and I'm going and I'm making thirty thousand dollars a year now, all my bills were paid. I had a a cool enough car, you know, like it it was interesting because I was satisfied then, but that's where I started to move the goalposts, like you you mentioned previously, where okay, uh I'm making this money now, but I'm gonna leave active duty and I'm gonna go start my own business and I'm gonna make more money. And I didn't know how I was gonna do it yet, but it just became that wasn't good enough, move on to the next one. And I've noticed in my life, and maybe this is my mental illness, where I got the Porsche. I had a Porsche poster on my wall as a kid, like that was the first car I got. But then it stopped being about the Porsche, started being about, okay, I'm gonna get the Lambo. And then I got the Lambo, and it stopped being about the Lambo, and it started being about, okay, you know, I I my business made seven figures, now my business can make eight figures. And then what? I just keep moving the goalpost further and further down, and I'm I'm curious to relate it back now to the conversation. You mentioned being motivated by the right things. What are the right things to you?

SPEAKER_58 2:54:44

Freedom.

SPEAKER_43 2:54:46

Yeah, when I had a $500,000 salary and had a huge company, I had no freedom.

SPEAKER_58 2:54:53

Like I was the mo I I actually came up with this analogy and it's it's real to me. Someone could have come up to me and said, Hey, the last couple years of that company, they could have said, Hey, 18 months in jail, no visitation from your kids. But you can trade spots right now. You can be in prison instead of dealing with what you deal with right now every day. And I would have taken that without even thinking. Jeez. Because I created my own hell, my own prison. Um you know, sure a lot of that's because the business would be up and down, so so up and down. You know, payroll was 300,000 a week every week. We never missed payroll somehow, but it was stressful, right? And so I think on top of it was really hard because everybody thinks you're so successful. Wow, look at you, how great you're doing. It's like, we barely made payroll this week. Yeah. I remember I was at the Entrepreneur of the Year finalist award, and it was a week after we laid people off for the first time in my whole life. Anybody's had a business for a long time. That's just normal. Like I remember talking to people, they're like, Oh, that's your first time doing that. That that happens, that will happen to you. Well, you have a business if you're gonna keep doing this. Yeah. To me, it was the end of the world, right?

SPEAKER_25 2:56:04

Well, I mean, you carry all of that responsibility, and when it's your first time doing that, yeah, I mean you're you're thinking about the families and the lives that are impacted.

SPEAKER_58 2:56:12

Yeah, just so hard on yourself, so hard, you know, in an unhealthy way. So um yeah, going back to you were saying um what was your question on that?

SPEAKER_25 2:56:28

What's the the you said you talked about being motivated by the right things?

SPEAKER_58 2:56:31

Oh yeah, the right things, like just freedom. Like, so so I didn't have freedom. Like I think most people on paper, it looked like I had all this freedom salary, equity, business, house, cars, family, everyone's healthy. Like uh relationship was okay, you know, and uh but I did not have freedom. Like I said, I would have rather actually been in prison than being in that situation day to day. It was that. And most of that, sure, business was stressful, but it was all in my head. Like I had created my own hell. I had okay, well, we got to get to the next level, we got to get to this place, we got to keep up this image. Like we've won Inc. 500 for four years in a row. What if we don't make the Inc. 500 list this year, as fast as growing in the country? Like that's the craziest talk ever. Like that was literally something that would drive if we don't hit it a fifth year in a row, people are gonna think we're we're going backwards. And if they think we're going backwards, the you know, who knows, right? Which is valuational tank, yeah. Yeah, like so crazy to be so driven by what everyone else's perception might be. It's all in my head. I created all that. Like, do you really think everybody's sitting there going, they better make the Inc. 500 for the fifth year? Nobody was doing that. So I created my own hell. And um, so now my entire purpose is driven all around freedom and creating freedom for other people. So freedom, sure, financially, but most of it starts within you. Like you've got to create that within yourself and then sign yourself up for things that'll help continue to create freedom.

SPEAKER_25 2:58:00

Gotcha. I like that. I like the way um you phrase that it's within you and you sign yourself up for more. Because I a lot of the people that I work with now, they're entrepreneurs, but they bottleneck themselves into the business. And I don't know if that's necessarily because they they're the ones who started the company. And so inherently at some point they were doing all of it, and you know, maybe they hire a couple people to do some of it, but they just fill their schedule with so much busy work, and maybe it's a mindset thing where they're not willing to get help or trust other people. But but also you I I mean, you mentioned you'd rather be in prison. A lot of people build themselves into that prison and they just stay there into perpetuity. What advice do you have for somebody to get out of that? And they call it entrepreneurship. Yeah, they call it I didn't want to work 40 hours a week for someone else, so I work 120 hours a week for myself.

SPEAKER_58 2:58:51

For myself, really, for your own prison is what it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 2:58:55

I didn't enjoy making $8,000 a month in corporate America, so now I make $800 a week for myself.

SPEAKER_58 2:59:02

But I think that is the common, the common theme I hear is that it takes a crazy amount of being driven and focus. We we know what that looks like to have success. It's not easy. It's real I think it's really difficult to like do that and not get addicted to it and not get overly focused and not just keep moving the goalposts on yourself and just grind yourself into the ground. So I think everybody goes through some sort of awakening at some point. Or they don't and they just keep trying to make more. And when you ask what will be enough, their answer is more, and that's where they go with their whole life. So I think there's kind of the two types of entrepreneur, they're the ones that are just gonna continue to have to just more, more, more, and their happiness is never achieved because it's always being moved. Yeah. Goalpost is always getting moved versus like actually creating real freedom.

SPEAKER_25 2:59:57

So you mentioned, you know, you feel like there's a level of being driven and focused that's required to be successful.

SPEAKER_50 3:00:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 3:00:03

I would almost argue that that's actually what leads you to the prison. You have to find a way, and maybe it's that you need a coach, a consultant, somebody on the outside, but you have to find a way to not limit yourself into the prison because the same drive that gets you the money is what's ultimately going to lead you to bottleneck yourself, ruin your relationship, step away from your family. Yeah. It's curious.

SPEAKER_58 3:00:28

Yeah, balance, right? Like I think uh that's where a coach and mentor can definitely be super helpful is in that scenario. I like I said, when I've been asked, like, what would you do differently? That's probably the biggest, quickest answer I usually have is having a coach or mentor earlier on would have saved me a lot of pain. I'd say a lot of suffering. Pain's gonna happen no matter what, but we need to choose how long we suffer. Oh, I like that. And I I continue to choose suffering because I did, you know, like like we talk about, sometimes you just think you got it all figured out, or they won't understand, or they won't get it, or it how you know they might have been successful in this business, but it doesn't apply to this one. So um at the end of the day, it's just uh lack of humility in that scenario.

SPEAKER_25 3:01:11

I'm curious, you talked about balance a little bit. Um but when you were you were mentioning what you do with freedom reserves, I would almost view that as more of an integration in the sense that you're not you're not so focused on like a work-life balance, you're focused on how do you integrate this all together to work in one direction.

SPEAKER_43 3:01:31

What do you think about that concept?

SPEAKER_58 3:01:36

So I think like it's interesting because we even named the company, if you didn't know this, Freedom, right? Freedom Reserves. Um in this situation, it's focused on creating financial freedom for your for your cash, right? So um, yeah, that's been the theme of my whole life at this point is like guiding principles, value. Some people call them values. I found that that's been really important for me is like make sure I have those, and new, any new business, any new partnership, any new thing I'm doing. What are my guiding principles and does this fit? One of those is is it going to be fun? I think so many times. Chapter five in my book. Yeah, it's like we I've learned part of that process to rebuild myself is the value of fun. I don't have a problem working hard. Most entrepreneurs don't. We're we're we're usually a little broken that way. Our compass is a little broken, and I'll never I was explained to me by a therapist like when you think you're being lazy, like that's like someone else's like hardest work, right? So I have I have to know that about myself and know like that's not gonna be my problem. So my focus is on like, will this be fun? Are the people I'm doing with gonna make it fun? Because I'll sign myself up for hard work all the time and just create my own my own prison again. So that's one of the the the guiding principles, or is it gonna create more freedom, right? And so so that's what I look at now when I look at opportunities and partners and you know, different groups to join and and even even just lunches, like like is this person is it gonna be fun? Is it gonna be, you know, is it gonna create more freedom? Am I gonna be able to create freedom for them or some for me? Like it's I try to keep those guiding principles at the forefront on decisions, and it it's made a big difference for me.

SPEAKER_25 3:03:15

I like um this thought, you know, once you get your finances in check, maybe it's your budget, you're you're comfortable. Uh you've laid a foundation that you can actually start to build on. And I think a lot of people who don't get their values or their guiding principles in check, those are the people that are often struggling the most financially. And it's because you can't build to the next level until you have a good find of foundation. And the finances is typically the foundation, in my opinion. The happiest people, financially comfortable. People that give back and they can help others, they're out of the scarcity mindset, it's because they're financially comfortable.

SPEAKER_58 3:03:49

I I totally agree. I think the way I've looked at it is I cannot believe how different my life's become once I wasn't worried about my paycheck next month. Yeah. So if someone just like, quick advice, I'm starting a business, like, and you give me 20 seconds and there's a million things, but want to be like, look, don't increase your lifestyle or go work hard. Whatever you've got to do to get to that spot probably means don't go buy the car yet. Right. Just get financial freedom. To me, financial freedom is you're not worrying about your paycheck next month, right? Like, because that's how I lived almost my whole life. Yeah. Right. Even when you start having success, you just increase your expenses with it almost every time. Because you've been waiting so long to finally have a little extra, and then you're like, well, I'll go buy that car now. Right. Yeah. So I think if you can get to where you have some room, it's amazing how much more creative you can get. And so many things that like I didn't even get to tap into until I finally had some space, some runway. Right. Like if you could create some runway in your business and your personal life financially, it's amazing how much more creative you can get and and how much more your brain will just process things differently. Like, there's so many opportunities I just didn't even see around me until I had some runway. Like when I had that exit and I had some time, like I had a and we're talking like weeks. I had never had weeks in my life where I wasn't worried about money or worried about like or had a huge business opportunity on my plate. And just those weeks, like freedom reserves came from that. I mean, a couple of other great investments. Like I made more money from just being in a creative space in that like six to eight weeks than I have in like years combined. That's awesome. Just being in an open creative space. I say leave room for God to be creative. It's really hard for that to happen for you to be in that creative space, to be in out of a scarcity mindset when you're like worried about your paycheck next month. So keep your finances where they need to be. Work your butt off to get the money you need so you can start to create that and try to get a chunk of money built up to where you have that space. But just continuing to be like worried about next week, how do you get out of a scarcity mindset? Like you can't just sit there and look in the mirror all day and be like, I'm I'm abundantly thinking. Like, come on, that's not gonna work if you're really not in that place.

SPEAKER_25 3:06:07

You have to generate some value, earn something, and then you can say, okay, I can replicate this. I'm I'm curious. I keep saying I'm curious. I'm curious. I'm so curious. I'm learning a lot from you. Um there's a pattern that I I see often, and I just want to get your your idea on it here. You talked about how being in the creative space brought, you know, this company and a bunch of other positive investments for you. I think that there's two separate spaces. You have the product productive space, you have the creative space. And when you're in the productive space, you're just building, working, doing the thing, you're never gonna get those creative opportunities.

SPEAKER_50 3:06:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 3:06:46

And when you step out of the productive space, you might be in the creative space. Creative space can give you the idea, but you're never gonna action it until you get back into the productive space. Yeah. Do you see those as separate places, separate mindsets?

SPEAKER_58 3:07:00

Or do you intertwine those very well? Great. Yeah, I think I've learned to balance those a lot better. Now, I I don't know how it is for every entrepreneur. I'll speak for me. I think I think more of them are built like me than than most, but it the principle applies either way. It's interesting, like you think about, I think most of us as entrepreneurs have no idea no problem just grinding and putting the work and doing it. I mean, it's a badge of honor. Yep. But do we create enough room for us to be creative? The way you'll know is if if you think about and you're like, how come I have this whole list of great ideas that only come when I'm in the shower?

unknown 3:07:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 3:07:36

The reason why I laugh about that despite what's real is it's the only, if it's the only place you actually have five to ten minutes, if your best ideas are only coming in the shower, that means you're not creating enough space for you to actually be creative. Yeah. Because it's the only time your phone's away, no one's in your place, and you finally have five to ten minutes to come up with a great idea. I think all of us have had that experience. Yeah. But like you should have other places that those are coming, come into fruition. You're missing out on so many other opportunities and how new ways to see things. So I, when I had to like start over, rebuild myself, figure out who I am, and from the ground up in every way, one of the great things that that came from that is to how to balance my life better, how to ground, how to, how to um, you know, like I said, leave room for God to be creative and to create some room for me to be creative. So now I think the old version of me would have almost shamed myself. Like, you're gonna go on a walk. Like there's not time to go on a walk. Like, and it got to where I relied on like going on a walk every night, and it was amazing the stuff that would just come out of that that time. So it's not like you're gonna go spend four hours a day just like laying in the grass looking at the clouds. But being in, I had to intentionally design my life to to create scenarios, environments where I actually could have creativity happen. Yeah. And if it's only 10 minutes while you're in the shower, like you're missing out on a huge opportunity. So now some of my best ideas, I'm like, I just I got this problem, or things are actually going well, whatever it is. It's amazing if I just for me, it's like going on a walk because you're kind of switching right late brain, left brain naturally when you take a walk or um listen to books or whatever it is, but just making sure I have some time and space to like let things just kind of organically come together. I think the old version of me is just like, I'm gonna sit in this room and stare at that whiteboard until this problem is solved. Yeah, it's like that rarely worked. And the ideas that came up were terrible compared to just the organic ones that can come if you just leave some space for it to actually happen. You're just grinding looking at the paper the whole time. The computer, like, where's it where's that gonna come from? Definitely it's hard.

SPEAKER_25 3:09:43

That's something that we have in common. I tried to intentionally schedule 45 minutes to an hour, kind of in the early afternoon of the day, just to create a a gap where I can go walk the dog, I go to the gym and just a separation. I think I get a couple benefits from that. The first is I get to decompress from whatever happened in the morning. Second is I'm in a position now where I'm not worried about work, but that allows me to think about whatever comes up in hand inherently or organically to me. And it maybe puts me in that creative space. That's not somewhere that I feel inherently strong. But if I don't have that time, then I'm just focused on my checklist, you know, doing my outbound messages, following up on sales calls, any of that other stuff, right? Um, but that doesn't help me grow. It's not like you said in the the start of this, it's not introducing the new vertical that helps me scale the business. That's just the mundane. Yeah, I have to get out of that. So I intentionally try to do that 45 minutes to an hour. I love it. Yeah, I wanted to ask about um okay, so you mentioned your guiding principles.

SPEAKER_49 3:10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 3:10:51

Having fun.

SPEAKER_49 3:10:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 3:10:53

Uh I have two thoughts on this. The first uh was taught to me by Marie Forlio, and she shared this concept of the total body yes, which was she was just doing too much. I mean, uh if you're familiar with her audience, if you're familiar with Marie, she runs Marie TV, is a consultant, does uh, I don't know, a hundred content channels of stuff, like just insane volume, really high performer. And she got to the point where she's just constantly burned out, feels like there's not enough hours in the day. So she comes up with this concept of the full body yes. And if any ounce of her being doesn't want to do something, automatically a no. Now, most people will look at that and say, that's just not realistic. I love it though, and I use it constantly. If I don't feel comfortable with something, it's no. If I don't want to do something, it's a no. If I don't enjoy doing something, it's a no. Now that doesn't mean I only do super fun, easy things where I'm laughing and playing with the kids. I can recognize that there's joy in the labor and that the journey will be rewarding and that I'll achieve something. And really I'm an achievement chaser. That's that's like my thing, is I'm I'm always chasing an achievement. So I can do hard things and things that suck to go chase that achievement. But when somebody invites me to do something and I don't want to do it, it's just a no. Just a no. And it doesn't have to be complicated. I simplify that. So I like to use that as a guiding principle. But then I wrote uh a book a couple years ago called How the Hell Are You Doing This? And it was the principles that I learned through military and business that allowed me to build success in my my organizations and with my relationships. And I said chapter five. It's titled, If it's not fun, I'm going home. And that's kind of my litmus now for if I'm gonna continue to do something. Like I'm I'm still in the Army National Guard, but I'm only in the Army National Guard until I stop enjoying it. And the the day that that work stops becoming fulfilling to me, or I stop enjoying the relationships that I have there, I'm out. I don't I don't need that anymore. I don't need the money. I don't need the okay. Actually. Yeah, yeah. Great insurance. I was very grateful for that this month. Uh, you know, our our fourth child was born on April 1st. I do, because we were gonna have a podcast. We were gonna podcast. Uh we we rescheduled. Thanks so much for working with us, by the way.

SPEAKER_58 3:13:48

That was so funny. Like, not even like really, that's his excuse. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_25 3:13:54

Yeah, right. This will be so easy to verify or disprove. Um so my son is born with his umbilical cord around his neck. Oh. Um, which he's, you know, trying to gasp for air. They get it untangled, but he takes such a forceful first breath as a result, then it ruptured his lungs and then lets air into his chest, which collapses his lungs. So then he's got to get a needle chest decompression. They have to insert a chest tube to allow the air that's escaping to like leave his chest so he can force-breathe. They got him on like the ventilator. They life flight him to uh we my wife gave birth in uh Oram Community, so just up the road. Life flight him to Provo, um, which okay, he's gonna be in the NICU for the first two weeks. Like, we can deal with that. But he's racking up those medical bills really quickly. And then my wife also gets this postpartum pre-eclampsia and hypertensive crisis type stuff, where she's got like a blood pressure of 190 over 120. She's in and out of the hospital multiple times that week, too. So I'm like, we racked up a hundred thousand plus in medical bills in a week. And I'm like, thank God for TRICARE. I needed that military insurance. Like staying in the army is all worth it now, you know. So while I might say things like, yeah, I don't need the paycheck or anything like that, man, am I grateful for that insurance right now. Um, because those would have been expensive weeks. But uh yeah, it's it's now what I do is more just the fulfillment piece. Like I ran for for city council last year. I got elected, won in a landslide, you know. I didn't need to do the city council. I mean, as I I actually it's funny now because if anybody ever says anything to me, I'm like, I make more money in an hour on the civilian side than I'll get paid in a year on the city council. It's it's strictly uh like experience thing. Yeah. I can do good, I can help other people, but also I become a better version of myself in that service. I can help others, I can learn about how the city functions, I can understand people's problems and get a little bit different perspective, and all of that just helps me be a better version of me. Yeah. And I think that that's when I think about being motivated by the right reasons, that's where I feel the most motivation and satisfaction is I'm on a path that helps me be a better me.

SPEAKER_58 3:16:24

I love that. Yeah, some things that kind of came to mind when uh you were talking through all that is uh I was going back a little bit, but um, I remember the the billionaire that that learned a lot from he reminded me like, and this is coming from a guy that's had you know has hundreds of companies. Um and he said you're gonna get indigestion from opportunity, so you gotta learn how to say no. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, you know, I I don't think I knew how to do that yet, and I think he saw that. I still don't.

SPEAKER_25 3:16:59

So I'm curious your take on that. Um how do you say no to things? Now I know that's a loaded question. I I maybe it's that I just have put myself in really good positions. And I'm starting to say no to some things. Like I coached high school football and middle school football for the last decade. I'm done. I had to had to hang it up to do city council. But I feel like I get a lot of awesome opportunities presented to me. Yeah. And I say, like, I I think we were talking at the start of this. Like my I've got e-com businesses, I run this podcasting studio, I do coaching and consulting, I've got uh property management and investing, we do uh luxury cars and time pieces and another business. Like, I'm just in a lot of pots. Military, the net the the city council. I'm finishing my doctorate right now. Why? Just because like I had the opportunity, so I said yes. But I I operate then in a very Compacted, conflicted schedule. I I got an executive assistant now, Trinity. You know, she's managing my schedule. We're time blocking everything, you know, so it's just go, go, go, go, go all day long. I think that that one lets me lean into everything to the most. Like when I'm in here podcasting, I'm only podcasting. And then before I would get bored of it, I can go to the next time block and that lets me weaponize my ADHD a little bit, maybe. But I've never, I've never really got good at saying no to stuff. Because even if I say no to one thing, it's like two more opportunities present themselves right behind it. Uh am I saying no to three things, or do I say, you know, how do you what's your I know the again, loaded question. What's your um thought on saying no? How do you say no? What do you what do you use as the test of if it's a yes or a no?

SPEAKER_58 3:18:53

Well, I think the logic side you handle by those guiding principles and values that kind of you need to establish ahead of time. Like have your list, is it gonna be fun? Is it gonna be more freedom or less freedom? You know, those are some of the things for me. And then I've really learned to trust my gut more. I don't know why, if it was just me or maybe other people relate, but I was really over-dialed on like the logic. Like to me, there was no such thing as a sixth sense that was like woo-woo didn't wasn't real. And it should just all be like logic, build a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet will tell you if you should do it or not, type of thing, right? I love that. I do the same thing. It's so I'm never gonna have a problem being logical, and probably with a lot of you know, men are usually more wired that way naturally. So my compass is always gonna be more broken that way. So where I have to focus and be more intentional is to create room to trust my body, my heart, mind, spirit, whatever you want to call it, your gut, sixth sense, all that stuff. I've realized it's all real. There's actually science behind it, and there's like there's an energy. And I think really turning up the volume on how much I equate that and how much I um value that, I think before be like, okay, 80% of the decisions based on the logic spreadsheet thing, and 20% might be like my gut. And as I've reversed that or tried to, at least I tell myself that's what it is, it's probably more 50-50, but I'm intentionally trying to value it the other way around. Everything just seems to flow so much better and uh more success in any way you measure it and way less stressful. So I think when you realize your gut and all these things, for those of you that just need it to be explained scientifically, like it's just your brain doing a million microprocessing things that you don't even realize it's doing that uh that's ultimately what I think your gut can add up to being.

SPEAKER_25 3:20:56

You know, it doesn't always isn't just some mythical thing floating in the air, but it's like I'm sure you got so many things going on, maybe that creates a chemical imbalance or a release, and that's why you feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_58 3:21:07

Yeah. Should I come on this podcast? Like my gut was like, Yes. Well, I've never even met you. Like, I didn't look you up or anything.

SPEAKER_18 3:21:15

It's crazy because again, we're in the same club. So how do we not know each other?

SPEAKER_58 3:21:19

Yeah, so maybe, maybe that's why my gut said yes. Well, we're in the same club. He wouldn't be there if you know he he wasn't similar to Hondo, because that's his, you know, yeah, I'm a huge believer. I used to wear some around my neck that said you attract who you are. So I I've had such a great experience in that group. He's probably just like everybody else. The fact that he's putting this together and inviting me means he's, you know, giving back to some level or there's something positive coming from this, you know. And so I don't know why. The point is, is instead of spending days and weeks analyzing that and putting on a spreadsheet, I just your gut will tell you a lot of what you need to know. And our bodies and our minds are so powerful. And if we can turn the volume up on that and figure out how to create room for that stuff to come up, and then I think most of it comes from if you actually follow through with it, your body, your heart, your mind, whatever you want to call it, will trust you more. Yeah, and it will continue to give you more of that. So that's that's really helped me with saying no to things or saying yes to things with your whole body, as you said.

SPEAKER_25 3:22:19

I really like that. I um, you know, I am in Russell Brunson's inner circle now, and and I talk to him as a mentor, but that's something that he does really well, and it's something that I've always struggled with. I'm very much data-driven decision making. Um, so you talk about putting things on the spreadsheet and looking at the the analysis for it, I'm like, oh yeah, that's what I do. I struggle with the gut. I I uh maybe I've conditioned myself, if I'm just speculating, to not actually get maybe those chemical reactions or have those feelings anymore where it's just I'm I don't necessarily feel those sensations strongly. Maybe that's just me. I don't know. I do gotta maybe I'll talk to my coach about it this week.

SPEAKER_58 3:23:06

Yeah, I think that's a good. I mean, I was that way too. Like it it just might be you haven't used those muscles as much recently or whatever, and had to. I think there's so many decisions to make off of data, but and then but there's also like gotta leave some room for that creativity to occur.

SPEAKER_22 3:23:21

And yeah, and I know that I'm weak in that area.

SPEAKER_58 3:23:24

I think when you look at some of the really fun stories, it probably from your own career, when you think back, it's like of some of the biggest and best decisions you made, you'll probably find more of them came from like a gut instinct versus like, yeah, I was in the spreadsheet and the spreadsheet told me this and I did it. This data-driven decision is what made me here.

SPEAKER_25 3:23:44

That's true, actually. I I my biggest failures in business were still data-driven decisions.

SPEAKER_58 3:23:50

Yes. Yeah. So I bet if you look at if you look back and you go with like, what were some of the best decisions I made that worked well? It's pretty rare that it wasn't gut driven. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_25 3:24:02

It's usually it's usually people for me are the best decisions that I make. And those I've And how do you analyze that on a spreadsheet? Exactly. Exactly. So uh now that you're talking through this a little bit and I'm putting that in perspective, you're a hundred percent correct. I the things that drove my organization forward the most were getting the right people involved. And then like we talked about at the start, you know, the the rainmaker triad. Yeah, I'm very much a rainmaker in the sense like I want to go have conversations with people. I want to meet you, understand you, I'm gonna drive revenue and sales, like that's just what I do. But I suck at being an engineer and I suck at being a creator, and so I have to hire creators and engineers. And if I hire creators and engineers, they'll cover my weaknesses. And then the organization can grow as a result. But it's the people. And then when it comes to hiring the people, I've always done it just based on I mean, we take your resume, we'll look at your stuff, see where you're at. Ultimately, that's like the smallest piece of the pie for me. I want to talk to you, I want to get to know you, I want to see where your mindset is, and then I'm hiring based on trust and character and less on any other thing because I can teach you what I need you to do. We can train you or coach you in the role, but I can't teach and train trust the same way or character the same way. So then it's a vibe check. And if you pass the vibe check. There you go. The vibe check. That's a good decision.

SPEAKER_58 3:25:30

Yep. So you're probably you probably just aren't recognizing how good you are at it. And like you said, it's like, look at how many people's choices you believe clearly have led to some great success. So you you are using it because you can only put that interview on a spreadsheet so much. Like at the end of the day, you just describe it like you're gonna vibe check them. Like that's what you're doing. There's really no when it comes to picking people, like you can have them do all the tests that some people have them do and all that, but like I'm starting to have people do those now. Yeah, that can help. That can help some of the data, but yeah, I think at the end of the day, that that calculator, that computer right there is gonna micro process a million different things and give you a great answer if you can learn to trust it and hear it.

SPEAKER_25 3:26:15

I love it. So let's look back maybe a little bit. Um, I told you at the start of the show, we do things largely from the lens of how do we help people who are starting, who are, you know, maybe beginning their business journey, they're trying to launch a company, they're struggling. How do we help them overcome those obstacles? So if you could look back, let's say to Jess 2010, what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_43 3:26:40

What advice would you give yourself? I think uh trusting your gut, creating room for you to be creative, for for there to be creativity, right?

SPEAKER_58 3:26:57

Like designing your life so there's some balance, so things can flow. Figure out who you are. I think uh one of the things I did well was like find an opportunity and then go learn to love that. You know, I never thought like, oh, I want to get into solar, I want to get into finance, I want to get no, where's the opportunity? I'm gonna go learn to love that. I remember when I was being interviewed for Entrepreneur of the Year finalist thing, and it's like, what do you love about solar? And like I remember having this weird moment, I was like, I don't even realize I'm in solar. Like I'm in this, I'm just I think I'm just building a culture. Like I'm in the business of building a business and building a culture that creates success. Like I would forget about what the product really was because it didn't really matter to me. And so I just found that was the opportunity at the time, just like the opportunity right now is is um you know, cash management with Freedom Reserves. That that's the opportunity that came across that I ran into and found a way to bring value to people. So I'm gonna learn to love it. And um that's that's something that um that's really helped me. And then I think the mentorship thing is such a such a big thing. You gotta find the right mentor. Probably follow your gut on that. There's a million people out there that you know will say they can show you and teach you, but yeah. Um it's probably not somebody that's like I think the hint would be it's probably not somebody that's approaching you saying, Let me be your mentor. It's usually not how it goes down. Your gut will probably tell you. And the thing that's really interesting about I think so many people think, well, if that person's had all the success, they've made millions or billions even, why are they gonna spend any time on me? And it's like the most fulfilling thing for me to do.

SPEAKER_13 3:28:45

I agree.

SPEAKER_58 3:28:46

I learn so much from so many people around me, and I look at how valuable the stuff was that I was given, like literally got myself out of mental prison, right? Because of having great therapists, mentors, friends, yeah, that helped me get there and really save my life, right? And so if I can give any of that back to somebody else, plus I've done all the work, like why wouldn't I help you cut a few corners? Yeah, absolutely. A little less people did that for me, but it's like the most fulfilling thing, right? To to be able to circulate that. The other thing that's really selfish about it is like my favorite, my favorite part of my week is usually about like these coaching sessions with other entrepreneurs that I have. And what's so fun is I actually just get to relearn it. Most of it is like stuff I already know, but it isn't almost everything stuff we already know or heard. Yeah, at some point. It's like, oh yeah, that's right. Like, so I get to watch them on their journey, maybe have a little smaller version of what I've been through before, and I get reminded of that myself, and now I have to reapply it to myself wherever I'm at today. So it's just like I get to continue to learn and grow from those opportunities too. So I think you'll find most people that have had success, like they are more than happy to give it back to you. So approach them, ask them for lunch, ask them for whatever, and tell them why. I think sometimes people that are successful get hit up with a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_51 3:30:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_58 3:30:06

And if you can just say, I just want to learn from you, you're gonna get a lot of yeses to those lunches. And uh so much can come from that. So I think the mentorship thing um was key for me. I found it from business partners typically. I definitely wish I would have had some more intentional, like, this is what this person is. They're focused on me and and how to help me grow personally and financially and you know, in business.

SPEAKER_25 3:30:33

So let me ask about freedom reserves a little bit, the cash management piece. You kind of talked about what you do earlier. Yeah. Who do you typically serve with that? Or what's what's the kind of people that you want to do business with in that? Is it entrepreneurs? Is it business owners? Who who is that uh client that you're serving?

SPEAKER_58 3:30:51

Yeah, cash reserves is really focused on liquidity, you know, five-day liquidity is how it works specifically. Managing your capital safely. So you're talking, you can never say guaranteed, but it's as low risk as it gets. Um and then just a higher yield, you know, we're usually, depending on your balance, it's a fixed guaranteed six percent, can be a little more if you have a bigger balance. So we designed it around like where we do well is with business owners, entrepreneurs, um, personal and business. Like for me, going back to the smaller construction company we sold at one point. So our operating expenses were about 50 grand a month. They weren't weren't huge, maybe a little higher than that sometimes. But we'd slowly had built up to where we had a million dollars in cash just there in the bank. And I'd talk to my business partner all the time, like, we should do something with this money. It's like, well, if we distribute it, we're paying taxes. And what else could we do with it? Like, and we just kind of found ourselves, and this was the case with other businesses, sometimes the numbers were a lot bigger, but you just didn't do anything with it. It just sits your checking account, and that's what you do. So we designed this so that it's right there, it's liquid, it's your dry powder. I I wish I would have had something like this then, so we could have put the money in in there, and then if we needed it, it was five days away, you know, five day liquidity. So um to be able to make six percent or more fixed and a super safe, you know, investment. Um uh it works just like a high-yield savings account. You have an app, you just tell it when you want your money back out, put money back in. So that's really where we designed it, and that's where we do well.

SPEAKER_25 3:32:24

Very cool. You mentioned you do well with business owners and entrepreneurs, both personal and business. Is there a threshold to sign on? Like, do you only work with people over seven figures? Do you work with people that are starting?

SPEAKER_58 3:32:37

Yeah, we um two reasons why we can do a higher yield is we only have accredited investors. Okay. And 100,000 is what you need to s to open an account. You can always go up or down once you open the account. So part of that is you can do a higher yield when you have accredited investors because they found banks have found the data shows they don't, they're just not as up and down and move money around as much. Not as volatile. So the money can usually stay more invested. So um, and the second second reason is, you know, one thing I love about as you going back to like the compound effect, as you build that momentum, it gets easier and easier. So even though, you know, there's a past life with a with the finance company that did really well, I chose to get bought out early. I didn't, I didn't get the full cash out on that one. It was my fault. I'll take the blame. Stayed friends with CEO, who's my current business partner. We were still great friends. It just I needed to focus on other things. And then the company ended up having this huge, you know, multi-billion dollar jump in revenue right after. I was probably bad luck. So um, so all that to say that like when you do that kind of volume, my current partner was the CEO then. You could you build some really unique banking relationships. Oh, absolutely. That's what opened the door to build this new company. And so even though that previous company was successful, I made some money from it. The bigger opportunity company was just the step. Yeah, just the step. Now we have direct access to the institutions, the tier one global banks only, on how they make money, and we're able to get people direct access into how they make money. So we can pay a higher yield because of that. That's awesome. So that's really how that came about was it's really built off of a past business that we had a you know a lot of success that opened up a lot of doors, and now we built a new company around that and designed it for ourselves.

SPEAKER_25 3:34:24

Now you said uh you only work with accredited investors. So I might butcher this, but uh, I believe accredited investors is 250,000 or more in uh is it is it cash, is it net worth or the exact regulation?

SPEAKER_58 3:34:39

It's 200,000 individual or 300,000 for uh combined household income for two years or more, or a million dollar net worth.

SPEAKER_25 3:34:49

Gotcha. That's kind of the collection right now. I put a deposit on Friday for an SF90. Uh so we're gonna add that to the collection as we move the Aston Martin and Bentley onto their new homes.

SPEAKER_58 3:35:03

Uh did you see Hondo's second SF90 he got? Second? No. He traded the black one two days later. Oh. Yeah. So he got an SF90, and then he's like, hey, come to the dealership, let's have a Ferrari date because they're just gonna show me how to use this thing. So I get there and he's like sitting in a convertible. And I'm like, hey buddy, how's it?

SPEAKER_25 3:35:26

Okay, this all makes sense then. I think I probably am buying the one that he is a black? Yeah, the black with yellow. Yep. Yeah, yellow calipers, yellow trim. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_58 3:35:35

That's what you're gonna buy? Sweet. So that one was awesome. And then he's a Batmobile. And then he's like, I kind of wanted a convertible, and he's like sitting in it, and I'm like, okay. So I sit down next to him. I realize like he kind of wants somebody to help him talk him into this.

SPEAKER_19 3:35:48

So I'm like, that's why you invited the friend.

SPEAKER_24 3:35:50

The friend is gonna get you across the finish line. Totally what happened. It was so great.

SPEAKER_25 3:35:54

I uh I actually Ferrari, man. My struggle with Ferrari. Uh I went in there looking at 296s, like GTS's convertibles. Because I want a convertible too. But I've got the Hurrican. The Hurrican's a convertible. Yeah. And then you get in there and you're looking right now. Right now, they have three 296s, 440 and under. They've got uh two F-8s, F-8 Spiders, 440 and under. They got the SF-90 in there, 440 and under. Like, I'm oh you got all of these awesome cars at this price point. So I just I test drove them all. Went and played around with all of them, and I'm like, you can't beat that SF90 right now, man. For the price, the bang for the buck on the car.

SPEAKER_58 3:36:42

I've never been in a car that did that to me. Like the plaid is it's like the plaid feeling, but then you get the emotion of the exhaust with it, so it makes it even feel faster. Yeah. Which at the end of the day, how it feels is ultimately what you're buying the car for. Exactly. I think we all study the logic right back to the business thing. It's like on paper, this has more horsepower per pound and blah, blah, blah. But it's like, but what does it feel like? Because if that's all you're into, yeah, you might as well just you should everybody wouldn't want to test the Model S plaid because that's it. Fastest car ever made. You can fit all your kids in it, blah, blah, blah. Well, there's a reason why people don't buy it. A lot of the people are, especially in the exotic world, are like why the SF90 is even at the price point it is, is because a lot of people don't want the hybrid. They want the the V10 naturally aspirated hurricons. Yeah. You know, that's why the values have gone up. So not everybody, but what's the soul? What does it make me feel is why people bought an exotic car in the first place. Yeah. It's not for practicality or something that's on a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_25 3:37:46

And I went in there looking at 296 GTSs, and it's, you know, V6 hybrid, but the V6 is massively underwhelming. The sound just wasn't there. You don't feel it. And then it's almost, you know, like a Porsche, very effortless. Everything it does just goes. It's quiet. Yeah. That's how the 296 felt. And so then I'm like, well, this isn't, it's not as special as I thought it was gonna be. But you get in that SF90 and it's loud and rowdy, and then you hear it just electronic, and yep. Everything about it was just a super oh, I was gonna say supercar, yeah, but super emotional.

SPEAKER_58 3:38:21

Yeah, that's why you got it. Yeah. Yeah, the my partners got the black GT2RS there. Awesome. And uh same thing, like that's Porsche's track car. Like that's the ultimate fastest car 9-11 ever made. And it's incredible. Well, we don't want to change anything about it because it's more investment grade. Yep. And uh, so no exhaust. But if that had an exhaust, it'd be insane. So compared to the Technica and the V10, the exhaust on that is so amazing, even though it's a stock exhaust, it's much more emotional. So it's funny because we actually enjoy the Technica more as far as the emotional drive than even the the 2RS. Yeah. Because it feels better, you know, the sound is a little more emotional, yeah. Yeah. So so it's really interesting how you know, if you're just looking on a spreadsheet, that one would be more fun, but you know, just depends on a lot of other factors that that would make you feel, right?

SPEAKER_25 3:39:19

So if you're watching the show now and we were just talking about like accredited investors and then jump straight into uh you know supercars, we had to do a quick battery change on the cameras and we were just talking, feeling good. Gosh, I love cars. I love cars for the experience of the cars. Um I wasn't crazy. Story. I would have failed high school auto shop if the teacher didn't kidnap me and then they kind of forced the school to just give me a good grade. Teacher kidnapped me. Hilarious. Um wasn't a real kidnapping, it was just uh I had got viral meningitis. In high school, was hospitalized for a week or two, was bed rest for like a month, just totally out of it. So I go back to school, and uh this teacher's just pissed off that like I hadn't been there and now he has to accommodate me, getting back into class and all that stuff. Um trying to catch me up when I'm you know a month and a half behind now or whatever. And uh I had a follow-up doctor's appointment. My mom had come to check me out of school, and they called down on the PA system, hey, send Parker McCumber to the office, he's being checked out. The teacher's like, he's not here. And I'm like, oh, hey, I'm I'm right here. And he's like, shut up and sit down. And I'm like, uh, okay. Like, pull out my phone and text my mom. I'm like, hey, I'm in class, but the teacher's not letting me leave. And uh the school calls down again and they're like, hey, Parker McCumber is getting checked out, you gotta send him send him down here. He's like, nope, he's not not here. So like my mom and the school resource officer have to come down with the principal to like see if I'm actually in class or if I'm just messing with her or something. And I'm just sitting there, sitting there in the desk. They're doing a PowerPoint presentation on transmissions or something dumb like that. I don't know. And uh it's this whole big fuss. And the principal essentially like just pulls the teacher out of the classroom, uh school resource officers, like telling him you can't do this. You're essentially kidnapping a child. Wild. But then uh then the school made sure I passed that class. I bet curious story. Um, yeah, my my dad threatened to uh because that was my senior year, and so my grades tanked, like was just in a bad spot, but my dad threatened to sue the school or press charges against the school for the kidnapping if we didn't. Uh hilarious. Okay. Um so before that, we're talking about uh who you serve in freedom reserves, yeah, and and how that vehicle looks and works. Um and we we mentioned accreditor investors make over a million dollars, a million dollars net worth, 200,000, yeah, something something like that to play with. Um and my thought that I wanted to bring up was like and maybe you alluded to this not being the right mindset, is that that is my retirement model kind of. If I can put five million dollars into something and I can get six percent out of it for the rest of my life, I mean, even five percent, that's two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. Bills are paid, we're living good. I can just chill. But I mean, maybe that's not actually the end goal. You know, I'd love to have a hundred million dollars sitting in an account paying me five percent a year. But uh, is is that typically how you see that that um freedom reserves used? Is it people they put their money in there and then they just live on that that uh interest essentially?

SPEAKER_58 3:43:11

It's a really good question. I think the way that we've we've found to explain this best is it's like think of your money in three different categories. You have your checking account, you have your cash reserves, this middle ground, and then you have like your growth investments. If you were to think of your money in those three categories, typically a lot of us just are living paycheck to paycheck and we're starting out, checking account. Yeah. Then you start to build these reserves. You actually have a savings account. You put a thousand dollars in there. I remember the first time I had two grand in my savings account, it was like crazy to me. It's like I thought I was rich, right? So you build up that savings account, your dry powder. And this goes for business owners too. Same thing. They start out some point, we all start from nothing, and then you grow it into something bigger. And then you start, once you have enough there, you're you start investing into growth investments. That's usually typically something where you're trying to make 10% or more than that. Yeah, and you're locking up your money for a period of time, six months, eight months. Throwing everything at that SpaceX IPO. There you go. So it's like whatever that is, we're not that, and we're not your checking account. We're that middle ground. Everybody has the dry powder or your savings account. This is money you probably have in a money market account. Where we do really well right now is people that have a high yield savings or money market account. Those are in the threes right now. Yeah. Where we're at six. And so, and it's the same risk profile. I mean, you've got, you can't ever say guarantee, but this is your like really safe where you put your safe money at. Yeah. So so that's where we are, is we're in that space where, you know, again, your dry powder that you need to use. A lot of times people use us in between those growth investments. Oh, I invested in this real estate project, it funded. I have another 90 days before the next one, put it here. Or until so this is the money you have set, or between cars, right? Like you sell a watch, you sell a car, you just got this cash out, put it here, and then when you need it, you we just need a five-day notice. And then you're able to get your money back out whenever you need it. So you're making about double the yield for most what they call cash, right? For your cash management. So that's the advantage that we provide with with Freedom Reserves is just uh about double the yield you'll typically get from a cash management strategy that's ultra low risk.

SPEAKER_25 3:45:18

Now you said you need $100,000 to start an account, but you don't have to keep $100,000 in it. Is that correct? Right. Right on, right on.

SPEAKER_58 3:45:25

So you can go up and down. Like once you get access, we just have an app, you just manage everything from the app.

SPEAKER_25 3:45:29

What uh I guess life changes or what success stories do you have that you can share with the audience about people coming over and using your service?

SPEAKER_58 3:45:39

Yeah, I think um I think where it's been really fun for, you know, I think we gave a few examples, but where it's been really good is you have people just between investments that are they finally, you know, did their investment. They're trying to, you know, bridge it before their next one. And so this is just a really good landing spot in between. There's also people that just want something super safe. Like I got off the phone today with with somebody that he he actually manages his aunt's money. He just has the power of attorney and she's older and she's got you know a chunk of money that needs to last her the rest of her life, and so he's in charge of it. So he's like, I don't want to do anything super risky. He's also not like a professional investor either. Like he doesn't personally have this much money necessarily to invest, but all of a sudden he's now responsible for this bigger chunk of money that's got to last his aunt the rest of her life. Yeah. So he really likes it for that reason because it's ultra, ultra safe, but it's still giving some sort of significant return, you know, compared to what else is out there.

SPEAKER_25 3:46:39

Right on. So man, it's uh I like it. I mean, I'm thinking about it from the business perspective. Yeah. And uh, you know, maybe you're in a position you're a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs buy and sell businesses too. And so then I mean you're you're constantly in this position where you need to have the cash accessible. So you don't want to tie it up in long-term investments or something that's gonna nailed it. Yeah, yeah, that's not gonna be liquid. The five-day liquidity makes those processes a lot easier.

SPEAKER_58 3:47:12

We have been, it's funny you say that because when I sold my company in 2023, I was spoiled because money market accounts were at five and a quarter, unheard of. You know, now they're about three and a half to three nine, and they'll they'll go down when the Fed lowers rates, you know, whatever the Fed lowers rates, that they definitely changed right away. And so I remember that day. It was an exciting day, my first like real exit, you know, and and uh I remember looking and like, hey, tell them to send my money to this money market account, not to my checking account, because I make like $215 a day or something like that, right? And and so I was like, make sure it goes straight there so I can make that extra 200 bucks. That was exciting to me, right? And it was at five and a quarter. So it was just really fun for me to like have a chunk of money that was making something that I was sleeping and I knew it was making money. Like that concept of finally making enough money to do that was like really exciting for me. So again, we designed this for ourselves. We designed this for people like us, people that are, you know, they really have done a lot to to create that money. It means a lot to them, and now you know they want to do something smart with it. So I we're definitely a fun landing spot when people have exits. We're really that's another one. I've got a guy that's like, I have a friend that's about to sell for a hundred plus million, and he makes it- Man, I wish I was selling for a hundred million. I know and what's funny is usually what we find is one of the things I love now is I love hearing the entrepreneur story and the and the and just like you, right? And so I love getting to hear all those things. And so typically, if someone's having that kind of success, any sort of exit from their business, they were probably super focused. Chances of them being smart and wise at investing is probably pretty low. Like we talked about.

SPEAKER_18 3:48:53

Yeah, they're focused on the business and the growth.

SPEAKER_58 3:48:55

I think we all assume, including myself, like I was I didn't know anything about it. Yeah, you know, I've got my brother-in-law that's just really smart, really wise at this. And then I presented him, you know, Freedom Reserves, and he was kind of like, Oh, I think this is a little better than the CD I'm in. And it's like, yeah, it's like three times the rate. And he but he doesn't even know. Yeah. Why? Because you're laser focused on running a successful organization, you're not a professional investor. So it's nice having a business partner that that's what he did before. He was a wealth advisor for ultra successful people. So we have that, you know, as part of like our our mindset and our leadership group. Um, but yeah, we're we're a fun landing spot for when you have an exit. You're gonna need to do something with that money right away until you decide where to deploy some money in some long-term, you know, investments or some fun toys or whatever you want to do with it, right? Like we're a really good spot for that.

SPEAKER_25 3:49:46

Well, I and I'm thinking about the strategy just in my own my own life. And I've I've shared the story a few times with uh the audience here. I snowball everything, is kind of my theory. So I bought my first exotic, was that GT3RS back in 2020. Um I can't remember, you know, maybe I put 20% down was what was required because I didn't have any credit history with exotic cars or anything like that. And so they weren't willing to give me the better rates or anything yet. So I maybe I come up with 30 grand, right, to to put down on this car. I bought the car for $150,000. I sat on that car for 18 months and I sold that car for $215,000. So now I'm sitting on like I pulled out after all is said and done, I've got 60 grand cash off of this car ownership. So that becomes the down payments on the next two cars. Yeah. And I just repeated the process. Hold those cars for a year. Snowball. They appreciate in value, right? Because we're finding the right make model, trim, all the options that are going to be high desirable, low miles, something that we can position ourselves as the premium when it goes to resell later. And then I rinse and repeat. And you know, on those ones, I didn't make 60 grand on those, but you know, I make 15 on each of them. So then I sell those, and it's not just the 30 grand that you have out now, it's the original 62. Yep. So now I've got 90 grand to put into my next set of cars. But that was how I just I snowballed the cars. But then in between each one, I've got this chunk of you know $90,000, $100,000 now. Yep. And so that's a cool position to be able to move that into, get a better rate, still liquid enough that you can pull it out within a week to go complete the purchase. You maybe put a deposit on something, wait for the money to clear, move it over.

SPEAKER_58 3:51:38

Yeah. Perfect example. We have that on that scale. We have it on larger scale.

SPEAKER_25 3:51:43

Well, yeah, because you do that same process with businesses, with homes. Like if you're into flipping. Yep.

SPEAKER_58 3:51:48

Yeah, definitely have some of those uh people doing like a 1031 exchange from real estate project, real estate project or whatever. Like the money's got to go somewhere, and it's shocking how many people just have it's huge chunks of money just sitting in their checking account, making nothing.

SPEAKER_25 3:52:02

Here's a question for you based on on what you just said. So I did a 1031 exchange last year, sold a home that we flipped, uh, turned around, put it into a row of town homes. I understand the rules of the 1031 exchange is it can't go to you. The money can't go to you. So it typically goes to a brokerage account. Yeah. Right. And then then it gets moved. Could you, in theory, just have that money go to your an account with you? Because then it's not coming to me as a payment, but it's being invested in the meantime.

SPEAKER_58 3:52:33

The answer is it would need to be, you know, the third party that's holding it would have to have the account set up. Right. The account couldn't be in your name, but yeah, you can do that.

SPEAKER_25 3:52:42

But you yeah, you could make somebody do that, put that money to work, collect some interest on it in the in the interim.

SPEAKER_58 3:52:47

Yeah, we get a lot of those requests too, like little it's amazing how many times there's these things like that where the money's got to sit or in be in between. Um you know, I've got a home builder that I work with, like uh he's building Darren Williams' house, you know, and it's like, you know, like he was just using an example, like, yeah, he's gonna give me a deposit, just like every client does. And while I'm building the house, it'll I mean put it in there. Yeah, might as well put it in in there and let it work. That's basically, you know, an extra employee every yeah he pays for an employee.

SPEAKER_25 3:53:15

Think about think about a um on a 1031 exchange, for example, you have to use that money within what, six months. So or you have six months to identify a year to complete the purchase, maybe something like that. But even if you just move that money over for six months out of the year on $100,000, it's three grand. Yep. Free money. Free money.

SPEAKER_58 3:53:36

Yep. And it's yeah, it's not like we said, it's not like your big growth investment. You're also not tying the money up. There's also like, you can never say no risk, but you're you'd have to have like a global economic takeout the tier one bank type crisis, happen to have your money at risk. So you're this is where you really can put your safe money that you know you can't afford to lose, that you really need access to. That's where we do well.

SPEAKER_25 3:53:59

For the audience that maybe doesn't know, uh, what's a tier one bank? Uh like what's the difference between if you if you're saying that and that's your going to America First Credit Union, you know?

SPEAKER_58 3:54:10

A real example is Barclays is usually a big part of uh where the money ends up with us. So you'd have to have like a Chase or a Bank of America or these large institutions, they'd have to have some big problems. Like you're having those kind of problems, and you're not really probably all of us are not worried about our cash anymore. We're more focused on bullets and food and sure, you know, cigarettes.

SPEAKER_59 3:54:35

Those are what's worth money in that.

SPEAKER_25 3:54:37

Cigarettes become the uh the primary driver of economic success.

SPEAKER_59 3:54:41

That's what I was told. That's I was told that's how it works if it happens. Both in prison and the army, yes.

SPEAKER_25 3:54:46

Yeah, you probably I mean those are those are just currencies in those places, anyways.

SPEAKER_58 3:54:49

But I think that's how it works in during the apocalypse. It's probably just like the army. So you probably know better than me what the value bullets and cigarettes.

SPEAKER_25 3:54:57

I love that. I love that. Well, Jess, you've provided a ton of value to me, to my audience, to the listeners. Is there anything that I can do to provide value to you and to your audience?

SPEAKER_58 3:55:07

I appreciate the invite. It's been awesome. I mean, I think um, you know, appreciate uh all the questions and the insight you've shared too. And love that you're giving back, love that you're you know out there sharing what you've learned and but still in a mindset of like uh learning yourself. Oh, absolutely. Just like asking those questions to figure out what you can gather from it. So I appreciate what you share with me, have me on, and it's been it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_25 3:55:33

My uh one last mindset thought now, because you mentioned the learning piece. Yeah, I identify like if everybody has an identity, my identity is a learner. Okay, and I I want to encourage everybody that's listening to adopt the identity of being a learner. Because if I get in an argument with you and I lose, I'm not defeated. I'm still learning that argument.

SPEAKER_60 3:55:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_25 3:55:57

If I start a business and I fail, I'm not a total failure. I'm just learning how to do that better still. Right. So in the sense of being a learner, I'm never defeated. And that's why I put so such an emphasis on that in my my personal life. So I'd like to encourage you all continuous learning, identify the or adopt the identity of being a learner, and in that you'll never be defeated. You just keep growing. I love that. Absolutely. Where can uh people find you? So somebody's listening to this, they say, Man, that Jess guy is awesome. I want to reach out to him. I hope he coaches me. How can I get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_58 3:56:33

Get freedomflowing.com is uh my website, and then there's a few different things I do, and and that'll that'll get you there.

SPEAKER_25 3:56:41

Awesome. If somebody wants to find you on social media, can they find you anywhere on social media? You said you're not on there at time.

SPEAKER_58 3:56:46

Instagram is at real Jess Phillips R-E-A-L.

SPEAKER_25 3:56:51

And can we put that uh put those links on the comment everything below? Sweet. Thank you so much for sticking around. If you're still here, remember to like and subscribe. I know you all do it anyways. Thanks so much, Jess. Thanks, Parker. It's awesome.